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Old January 28th, 2009, 11:46 AM   #16
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It does not matter to me that Mac OS will not play back BluRay. Just buy a Bluray player which is what most of my clients use and that lets you check the results they will view.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 12:37 AM   #17
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I'm with you Paul. I just bought and will use ADOBE SOFTWARE PROUDLY to burn and sell my Blu-Ray discs. Unfortunately, I will be using DVD Studio Pro for DVDs like I have been for 5 years, as that is what I know and want to finish ASAP for the market.. but once I learn Adobe and if its up to par, say goodbye to DVD studio Pro as I will make DVD and BD in one step.

For Apple not to have an HD solution and be on the board of Blu-Ray... I think is an insult to us Producers shooting in HD. HD-DVD is dead. Apple had the first solution for them (hd-dvd) and now nothing for 2 years behind Sony, and Adobe?!

I thought Apple was a cutting edge publishing company... People have been shooting HD for 3 years now and no way to publish a BD disc?! DVD sucks for HD... BD is selling well and growing... Come on, get off the attitude, pay the stupid license fees and make some great software to empower us producers like Apple use to.... Thanks to Adobe for stepping up - otherwise - we would all be PC users.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 08:18 AM   #18
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I've had Adobe Encore CS3 for more than a year now. The program does work, but it's very buggy and crashes a lot. Plus the compressor that Apple uses for standard def DVD's is much better than the compressor that Adobe uses. I love Adobe programs, and I've been using them for years, but Encore still needs a little work. Maybe the CS4 version is better? I'll be purchasing CS4 Production Premium (upgrade from CS3) sometime in the next few months.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 09:31 AM   #19
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state of Blu-ray technology for video producers

Just got an email notice for this today. Odd given the date but it must be on iTunes then.
state of Blu-ray technology for video producers
Creative Planet's Digital Production BuZZ - News

Here's the link that'll get you to the podcast
http://www.digitalproductionbuzz.com...ate=2009-01-21
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Old January 29th, 2009, 09:38 AM   #20
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Interesting Craig,

Larry Jordan is a great teacher will be interested to hear what he has to say when it hits itunes.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 11:44 AM   #21
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Thanks Craig a good overview of the basics. Clearly, the bag of hurt is Blu-ray replicating and the associated license fees which should not be an issue for the work that most of us are doing.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 12:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender View Post
Thanks Craig a good overview of the basics. Clearly, the bag of hurt is Blu-ray replicating and the associated license fees which should not be an issue for the work that most of us are doing.
I think there are two basic issues Apple is facing.
Blu-ray playback of commercial copyprotected disks. I think Apple is smart not to screw up the OS for this. I do think one should be able to playback non copyprotected disks as one might make or receive from clients.

Blu-ray authoring for commercial replication. This is actually not critical for those of us dealing with small corporate and personal business disc creation. Certainly Toast and Encore are being used in this area (small client delivery) and it would be reasonable to expect DVDStudioPro to handle this.

I do think at issue is Apple's outlook on Optical Disk Authoring in general. Apple made virtually no improvements in DVDStudioPro between Final Cut Studio 1 and FCS2. In addition, Apple has made virtually no change in iDVD between iLife 08 and iLife 09. In fact iDVD isn't even mentioned in the packaging of iLife 09 although it's there. It seems Apple genuinely thinks Optical Disk is dying. To leave it off the consumer package indicates that it has no market value at all for Apple. They certainly have shown no interest in improving the features in either their consumer or professional Optical Disk authoring tools.

Given that Apple has opted not to match Toast's Blu-ray video features in iDVD I don't hold out much hope for Apple adding Blu-ray authoring in their software/hardware. They aren't blocking it per se since Toast certainly works. They may feel that the demand is so low that they don't want to invest the R&D and will leave it to third party developers.

The "battle" seems to be between disk vs online vs file based delivery of HD. Personally each has their place though. I don't see disk dying. It won't be dominant the way DVD had been but there's still a need.

I think the problem is that people characterize disk vs online when it comes to Apple nor is it a complete picture. Some may feel delivering a file when complex menus aren't needed, may be more effective. I suspect this more accurately reflects Apple's position (not that it's a position I agree with though). I do think it all comes down is whether Apple feels the R&D for Blu-ray authoring, in its simplest form, is profitable for them or not. Apparently they feel it's not (relative to other things those finite R&D resources could be put in to).
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Old January 29th, 2009, 12:26 PM   #23
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There was a "rumor" that the reason that Microsoft went with HD-DVD for the X-Box was to dilute the waters and make consumers less interested in ANY high definition optical disc formats. The same rumor is that this is why Apple isn't coming to the Blu-Ray party. Both companies want consumers to forget about optical discs and move to downloads (iTunes, etc...) where THEY can make money.

I hope this is not the case as they will NEVER be able to offer the same quality in a download as they could on an optical disc. If they did, it would take way too long for most consumers to download. Now if we can suddenly get similar internet service to what Japan is enjoying (50mbs download) then maybe downloads will work. But I don't see that happening any time soon. :)
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Old January 29th, 2009, 12:30 PM   #24
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I'd thought I'd add another issue important to us EX users as a separate but important related subject.

The EX codec at MPEG-2 35mbps VBR in and of itself falls within Blu-ray spec. People at Sony have told me this much first hand.

What is REALLY needed IMHO is a way to burn the file to Blu-ray disk, WITHOUT RE-ENCODE (no additional loss) so that one can hand such disk to a client that can be played in any Blu-ray player. I don't think any app does that. In effect it would be file based delivery to a disk with basic authoring specs so it could play on a Blu-ray player.

Given that Sony is the "prime mover" behind MPEG-2 Long GOP you'd think they would have motive to create such an app as a cross platform utility.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 01:05 PM   #25
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Mitchell, as I mention in my post I think download vs optical miscasts the issue. File based delivery doesn't require EITHER optical or download (but can involved both) and that's the wild card.

I do think the companies that have to invest R&D in software and hardware have to look at the cost vs returns vs the longevity of the format. I suspect they find Blu-ray may be short lived or, at least, not have the market share portion that DVD had at its peak.

I think there's actually a lot of "market insecurity" where delivery is going and one thing for certain is that delivery may not be tied to a specific media. One can deliver a codec many different ways now.

One example: I can make an H.264 file that will play on a hard drive, can go to a big HDTV that would look spectacular . . . but might choke on an optical disk. In other words one may hand the file to a client but the media might not be an authored optical disk. It may even be on an optical disk to be copied to a hard drive. That doesn't involve authoring though.

Also it seems many things "consumer" are driven by convenience over quality even if some of us wish it were otherwise.

While the bandwidth for HD download still isn't there for much of the world or the USA it is getting close. HULU and NetFlix are certainly looking in that direction. Keep in mind download doesn't have to be real time (although that would be a big plus).

Really the whole issue isn't about single thing but a convergence of technologies and issues which, in total, make Blu-ray authoring and the R&D involved less attractive to companies like Apple.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 01:25 PM   #26
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^^^^^Great points! I agree.

Maybe people are thinking they can "deliver" on thumb drives (they are getting VERY cheap) and bypass optical discs. (just thinking out loud)
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Old January 29th, 2009, 02:31 PM   #27
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Yes Craig good points. I use thumb drives with WD player with some customers but some request BluRay. So it is nice to have the options with Toast 10.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 02:39 PM   #28
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The other possibility is flash card, possibly write once flash card too. Don't forget Blu-ray as data disk is a form of delivery which requires encoding but no authoring.

Delivery methods are becoming broader and broader so developing software tied to a specific media may be less lucrative for some companies.

Again this doesn't mean Apple is blocking Blu-ray, they may simply feel Toast is adequate for simple Blu-ray video delivery.

Also note that Adobe is not selling Encore as a separate utility either (nor does Apple for some time with DVDStudioPro). As an aside, many folks do report Encore as being buggy so apparently Adobe didn't make it a major R&D priority even while including the ability to author "primitive" Blu-ray.

Basically, except for the "high end" authoring software for optical disk, it appears not to be a lucrative market.

It's not that online or file will replace optical disk, it's just that optical disk on its own, isn't as dominant as it once ways and that certainly impacts the R&D motive for authoring software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis View Post
^^^^^Great points! I agree.

Maybe people are thinking they can "deliver" on thumb drives (they are getting VERY cheap) and bypass optical discs. (just thinking out loud)
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Old January 29th, 2009, 03:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis View Post
^^^^^Great points! I agree.

Maybe people are thinking they can "deliver" on thumb drives (they are getting VERY cheap) and bypass optical discs. (just thinking out loud)
I just delivered a 47GB Blu-ray project. Thumb drives have a ways to go.

Charter Comm also announced their new high speed internet service which could make full HD download a reality, but it's $140/month. As for the rest, time will tell.

At the end of the day, I am grateful to have Blu-ray tools like Encore and Toast BD. I have not yet given up on Apple, they will deliver when they feel the time is right.

Last edited by Barry J. Anwender; January 29th, 2009 at 07:59 PM.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 07:50 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender View Post
I have not yet given up on Apple, they will deliver when they feel the time is right.
I'm crossing my fingers that you're right.
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