EX footage onto Blu-ray disc at DVinfo.net

Ed Kukla · March 21st, 2009, 04:18 PM

If a single layer blu-ray disc can hold 25Gigs and EX can record 1 hour on 16mb cards then I should be able to archive about 15 hours on one Blu-ray disc?

Any thoughts on archiving EX footage to Blu-ray discs?
I'll likely use the highest quality picture, 1080p on the camera and want uncompressed files on the disc.

Will re-writable discs be risky business for adding to the disc along the way?

David Issko · March 21st, 2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla

If a single layer blu-ray disc can hold 25Gigs and EX can record 1 hour on 16mb cards then I should be able to archive about 15 hours on one Blu-ray disc?

No, a little under 1 hour of EX recorded material in HQ mode will fit onto a 16Gb card, not a 16mb card. This is where your confusion lies. Hope this is of assistance to you.

Ed Kukla · March 21st, 2009, 05:22 PM

OOOOPS!

I never was good at math!

So, close to 2 hours?

Thanks.

Craig Seeman · March 21st, 2009, 05:44 PM

16GB card holds about 57 minutes when shooting HQ 35mbps. All HQ setting play at about the same data rate so 1080p or 720p makes no difference in size. None of this is "uncompressed."

Please don't confuse native codec or archiving without further compression with uncompressed.

It actually uses something like around 14.9GB give or take though.
I'm not exactly how big a 25GB Blu-ray disc is but it might be slightly smaller as 4.7GB DVD is actually about 4.3GB and an 8.5GB DL-DVD is actually about 7.95GB. A 25GB Blu-ray might be about 23GB or so.

You might get just over 1 1/2 hours on 25GB Blu-ray.

Interesting note about costs.
You can get 25GB Blu-ray disks for around $8
On the other hand Delkin archival disks are around $28
A 16GB Transcend Class 6 SDHC card you can use in MxR is also around $28
Sony 23GB XDCAM disk is about $20

Given how long it takes to burn the blu-ray disk or the cost of using archival media prices are getting awfully close to the point where one might consider shooting to the Transcend SDHC cards and keeping them as one would with tape.

Ed Kukla · March 21st, 2009, 06:35 PM

I'm doing pretty good tonight with mis-statements. I did mean no further compression or transcoding, not 'uncompressed'.

Delkin archival discs are $28? What is the projected life of a standard Blu-ray at $8 vs the Delkin at $28?

Thanks

Craig Seeman · March 22nd, 2009, 12:27 AM

I spoke to someone from Delkin about this last year at a trade show. I believe they said a typical blu-ray disc might be about 50 years. Their discs are rated at 200 years and beyond. Their disc surfaces apparently can handle scratches and retain data retrieval. They also said they do not believe dual layer blu-ray can be archival so far in their testing, hence they don't make 50GB archival discs.

Blu-ray Archival Gold Recordable Media, The 200 Year Disc – Delkin Devices
Delkin Archival Gold Inkjet Media.The Most Reliable Media in the World.

They have white paper on their CD-R longevity (300 years) but I couldn't find any on blu-ray.

Of course some people argue over the validity of the testing compared to real world circumstance.

The other key is backward compatibility of future blu-ray data readers and whether something eventually replaces optical discs entirely. The longevity won't help if you can't find a data reader in 10 years.

Mike Chandler · March 23rd, 2009, 05:42 PM

Craig: Did they say why they don't think the 50's are archival-ready? And if that's the case, how are you splitting up your +25gb BPAV folders?

Bob Jackson · March 23rd, 2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla

If a single layer blu-ray disc can hold 25Gigs and EX can record 1 hour on 16mb cards then I should be able to archive about 15 hours on one Blu-ray disc?????

Any thoughts on archiving EX footage to Blu-ray discs?
I'll likely use the highest quality picture, 1080p on the camera and want uncompressed files on the disc.

Will re-writable discs be risky business for adding to the disc along the way?

Don't forget you can put 20 min of footage onto a blueray encoded "DVD" using toast 10.
Not what you are talking about, but good to know for people without blueray...

George Thompson · March 24th, 2009, 10:47 AM

You can buy printable blank disks for $4 each in bulk. Getting closer to $1 that I am hoping for. However, I can live with $3.99 each in bulk for now.

Mitchell Lewis · March 24th, 2009, 11:49 AM

Where can you buy them for $4 each? You have to buy 10,000 of them to get that price? :)

George Thompson · March 24th, 2009, 11:54 AM

Blu Ray DVD, Blu Ray Disc - Shop4Tech
per 100.

Or $3.75 here
Blank Blu-ray Discs, Blu-ray Media

Kevin Shaw · March 24th, 2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

I'm not exactly how big a 25GB Blu-ray disc is but it might be slightly smaller as 4.7GB DVD is actually about 4.3GB and an 8.5GB DL-DVD is actually about 7.95GB. A 25GB Blu-ray might be about 23GB or so.

A 25 GB Blu-ray disc should hold 25,000 Megabytes or 25,000,000,000 bytes. Craig is referring to older binary calculations of data capacity, which have been resolved by defining a gigabyte as 1,000,000,000 bytes and a "gibibyte" as 1,073,741,824 bytes. For more info on decimal versus binary calculations see Gigabyte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Also note that the EX uses a variable data rate in HQ mode so exact capacity calculations are difficult. If we use Craig's figure of 57 minutes per 16 GB then a 25 GB disc should hold 57 / 15 * 25 = 89 minutes of HQ footage. Call it 85 minutes to allow some wiggle room and you should be able to get a good estimate of how many discs you need for a given amount of footage.

Craig Seeman · March 24th, 2009, 12:37 PM

And a large selection from B&H from individual to bulk printable.

The cheapest being four 50 packs of Sony inkjet printable which works out to about $3.60 each.

CDs, DVDs & Blu-ray Discs | B&H Photo Video

Craig Seeman · March 24th, 2009, 02:38 PM

Thanks for that Kevin.

The problem is there's a fair number of burning/authoring software using the older method.
Sony's old ClipBrowser was one example. Version one wold split the BPAV at "8GB" (for DL-DVD) but it wouldn't fit on the 8.5GB DL-DVD (as 8.5GB would be 7.95GB under the older method Kevin refers to). ClipBrowser2 doesn't have that issue though.

So one may not know which method your utility of choice is using. We can only hope as these things are updated they use 1,000,000,000 bytes for a GB as a uniform standard.

Buba Kastorski · March 24th, 2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla

Any thoughts on archiving EX footage to Blu-ray discs?

hard disks are still cheaper, and more important faster, and by the end of the year with SDXC
up to 2 terra i hope archiving problem will be solved

March 21st, 2009, 04:18 PM	#1
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	EX footage onto Blu-ray disc If a single layer blu-ray disc can hold 25Gigs and EX can record 1 hour on 16mb cards then I should be able to archive about 15 hours on one Blu-ray disc? Any thoughts on archiving EX footage to Blu-ray discs? I'll likely use the highest quality picture, 1080p on the camera and want uncompressed files on the disc. Will re-writable discs be risky business for adding to the disc along the way?

March 23rd, 2009, 05:42 PM	#7
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	Craig: Did they say why they don't think the 50's are archival-ready? And if that's the case, how are you splitting up your +25gb BPAV folders? __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

March 24th, 2009, 11:49 AM	#10
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Where can you buy them for $4 each? You have to buy 10,000 of them to get that price? :) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

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March 21st, 2009, 05:22 PM	#3
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	OOOOPS! I never was good at math! So, close to 2 hours? Thanks.

March 21st, 2009, 05:44 PM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	16GB card holds about 57 minutes when shooting HQ 35mbps. All HQ setting play at about the same data rate so 1080p or 720p makes no difference in size. None of this is "uncompressed." Please don't confuse native codec or archiving without further compression with uncompressed. It actually uses something like around 14.9GB give or take though. I'm not exactly how big a 25GB Blu-ray disc is but it might be slightly smaller as 4.7GB DVD is actually about 4.3GB and an 8.5GB DL-DVD is actually about 7.95GB. A 25GB Blu-ray might be about 23GB or so. You might get just over 1 1/2 hours on 25GB Blu-ray. Interesting note about costs. You can get 25GB Blu-ray disks for around $8 On the other hand Delkin archival disks are around $28 A 16GB Transcend Class 6 SDHC card you can use in MxR is also around $28 Sony 23GB XDCAM disk is about $20 Given how long it takes to burn the blu-ray disk or the cost of using archival media prices are getting awfully close to the point where one might consider shooting to the Transcend SDHC cards and keeping them as one would with tape.

March 21st, 2009, 06:35 PM	#5
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	I'm doing pretty good tonight with mis-statements. I did mean no further compression or transcoding, not 'uncompressed'. Delkin archival discs are $28? What is the projected life of a standard Blu-ray at $8 vs the Delkin at $28? Thanks

March 22nd, 2009, 12:27 AM	#6
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I spoke to someone from Delkin about this last year at a trade show. I believe they said a typical blu-ray disc might be about 50 years. Their discs are rated at 200 years and beyond. Their disc surfaces apparently can handle scratches and retain data retrieval. They also said they do not believe dual layer blu-ray can be archival so far in their testing, hence they don't make 50GB archival discs. Blu-ray Archival Gold Recordable Media, The 200 Year Disc – Delkin Devices Delkin Archival Gold Inkjet Media.The Most Reliable Media in the World. They have white paper on their CD-R longevity (300 years) but I couldn't find any on blu-ray. Of course some people argue over the validity of the testing compared to real world circumstance. The other key is backward compatibility of future blu-ray data readers and whether something eventually replaces optical discs entirely. The longevity won't help if you can't find a data reader in 10 years.

March 24th, 2009, 10:47 AM	#9
George Thompson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cortlandt Manor, NY Posts: 10	You can buy printable blank disks for $4 each in bulk. Getting closer to $1 that I am hoping for. However, I can live with $3.99 each in bulk for now.

March 24th, 2009, 11:54 AM	#11
George Thompson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cortlandt Manor, NY Posts: 10	Blu Ray DVD, Blu Ray Disc - Shop4Tech per 100. Or $3.75 here Blank Blu-ray Discs, Blu-ray Media

March 24th, 2009, 12:37 PM	#13
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	And a large selection from B&H from individual to bulk printable. The cheapest being four 50 packs of Sony inkjet printable which works out to about $3.60 each. CDs, DVDs & Blu-ray Discs \| B&H Photo Video

March 24th, 2009, 02:38 PM	#14
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Thanks for that Kevin. The problem is there's a fair number of burning/authoring software using the older method. Sony's old ClipBrowser was one example. Version one wold split the BPAV at "8GB" (for DL-DVD) but it wouldn't fit on the 8.5GB DL-DVD (as 8.5GB would be 7.95GB under the older method Kevin refers to). ClipBrowser2 doesn't have that issue though. So one may not know which method your utility of choice is using. We can only hope as these things are updated they use 1,000,000,000 bytes for a GB as a uniform standard.