Matsushita HD Blu-Ray cam in '05 at DVinfo.net

Jesse Bekas · October 10th, 2004, 01:16 AM

Camcorderinfo's newest frontpage article right now says that Matsushita has anounced that they will have a Blu-Ray cam available in '05. Most likely HD, and from Panasonic. Sony also announced that they have one in the works, but would not confirm a timetable. The cams will use 8cm, 15(?)GB Blu-Ray discs, so if it's HD it will have to be HDV compatible to fit on 15GB media. Maybe Panny realized that the P2 system is still too expensive to bring to prosumers, and decided on this to help the format along?

Deron Bauman · October 10th, 2004, 01:22 AM

Here's the article online:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-and-Matsushita-to-Release-Blu-ray-Camcorders-in-2005.htm

Anhar Miah · October 10th, 2004, 06:03 AM

i wonder if the decide to make a pro version as well, maybe use the full size blu-ray thus increasing the bandwidth? imagine HDV @ 50mbs

Michael Struthers · October 11th, 2004, 01:00 PM

Blue Ray is not backward compatible, si? You can't play your old dvds.

HD-DVD holds more data and is backwards compatible, from what I understand. Let's see if they can out-market Blu ray.

Jesse Bekas · October 11th, 2004, 07:17 PM

If memory serves...Blu-Ray capacities are already at 52GB, and technbologies are currently being developed to bring that # up to 200GB. HD-DVD is stuck in the 30GB range if it wants to retain compatability with current DVD manufacturing systems. Both have recently adopted MPEG4 encoding to fit more video material on those discs. HD-DVD might also be moving to blue laser technology now. I don't think we'll know which is better until they finalize the formats, but for now Blu-Ray looks better...more expensive...but better. Blu-Ray players will have a red laser inside to read old discs.

Aaron Koolen · October 11th, 2004, 07:35 PM

I haven't been keeping up to play on the latest developments in this area, but the thought of having a moving disk in my camcorder sounds a bit dodgy. Does anyone have any information on the reliability of it?

Aaron

Jesse Bekas · October 11th, 2004, 09:37 PM

We're only going to know the reliability after people have used the tech for awhile. We can, however, observe current DVD camcorders and see how well they hold up as the tech is highly comparable. Anybody (electronics retailers) have numbers on DVD camcorder repairs/returns versus tape based camcorder repairs for Sony Hitachi and Panny?

Harrison Murchison · October 12th, 2004, 11:40 PM

HDV is tape only per the spec.

Jesse Bekas · October 13th, 2004, 07:44 AM

Right. That's why I said that HD on 15GB disc media would be "HDV compatible". It would be the same HDV MPEG2 signal recorded to disc. Many people speculated (correctly, it seems for now) that Panasonic wouldn't adopt/endorse the HDV spec mostly because they want to move away from tape based recording.

Robert Mann Z. · October 13th, 2004, 08:23 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : Let's see if they can out-market Blu ray. -->>>

I don't think they will have too work to hard at that, once users see one disc at 2-1 bucks and the other disc at 10 bucks the market will correct itself...

current dvd production lines can be convereted to hd-dvd lines in 5 minutes, blu ray needs all new manufacturing techniques keeping costs higher...

another way to look at it is always bet against sony and new media formats

Jesse Bekas · October 13th, 2004, 11:52 AM

DVD manufacturing can be converted to HD-DVD manufacturing very easily, but only for 30GB discs. If they want bigger discs, like Blu-Ray's current 52GB, then they have to change all the production lines anyway. Sony, et. al. are also already in the process of creating a 200GB 8-layer disc.

Newest devleopments in this format war are HD-DVD using a blue laser, and Blu-Ray going MPEG2 to fit even more HD video on disc.

Maybe we'll see a trend like Beta/VHS where Blu-Ray goes Pro, and HD-DVD is a consumer format, or HD-DVD will work for a few years at 30GB, and then we'll move right into 200GB Blu-Ray in 2009.

but that would disprove this wise axiom...
"another way to look at it is always bet against sony and new media formats"

Mark Whittle · November 15th, 2004, 12:27 AM

Blu-ray already is pro.

I am currently shooting on Sony XD CAM which uses Blu-ray at DVCAM quality (80 min PAL) or IMX which is higher quality at the expense of disc space.

Aaron, I don't think you need to worry too much about the reliability of a disc system compared to tape - these things are RUGGED. Plus no head wear, condensation issues, accidental erasure, head cleaning etc, etc.

And the discs can be re-used thousands of times. Unlike the domestic version XDCAM discs are housed in a cartridge for their own protection.

What's not to like?

Mark

Jesse Bekas · November 15th, 2004, 12:49 AM

Blu-Ray is already pro, but the real question is, will it trickle down to consumers, or will the easy to produce 30GB HD-DVD format take that market over for now. I think Blu-Ray will remain the pro format, and HD-DVD the consumer format, just to stick it to everybody, and force the pros to have to buy twice the equipment.

October 10th, 2004, 01:16 AM	#1
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Matsushita HD Blu-Ray cam in '05 Camcorderinfo's newest frontpage article right now says that Matsushita has anounced that they will have a Blu-Ray cam available in '05. Most likely HD, and from Panasonic. Sony also announced that they have one in the works, but would not confirm a timetable. The cams will use 8cm, 15(?)GB Blu-Ray discs, so if it's HD it will have to be HDV compatible to fit on 15GB media. Maybe Panny realized that the P2 system is still too expensive to bring to prosumers, and decided on this to help the format along?

October 10th, 2004, 01:22 AM	#2
Deron Bauman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 30	Here's the article online: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-and-Matsushita-to-Release-Blu-ray-Camcorders-in-2005.htm __________________ -- elimae.com : deronbauman.com : lighwell.org

October 11th, 2004, 01:00 PM	#4
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	Blue Ray is not backward compatible, si? You can't play your old dvds. HD-DVD holds more data and is backwards compatible, from what I understand. Let's see if they can out-market Blu ray. __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com

October 11th, 2004, 07:35 PM	#6
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	I haven't been keeping up to play on the latest developments in this area, but the thought of having a moving disk in my camcorder sounds a bit dodgy. Does anyone have any information on the reliability of it? Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

November 15th, 2004, 12:27 AM	#12
Mark Whittle Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bunbury, Western Australia Posts: 153	Blu-ray already is pro. I am currently shooting on Sony XD CAM which uses Blu-ray at DVCAM quality (80 min PAL) or IMX which is higher quality at the expense of disc space. Aaron, I don't think you need to worry too much about the reliability of a disc system compared to tape - these things are RUGGED. Plus no head wear, condensation issues, accidental erasure, head cleaning etc, etc. And the discs can be re-used thousands of times. Unlike the domestic version XDCAM discs are housed in a cartridge for their own protection. What's not to like? Mark __________________ MW

October 10th, 2004, 06:03 AM	#3
Anhar Miah Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United Kindom, England Posts: 290	i wonder if the decide to make a pro version as well, maybe use the full size blu-ray thus increasing the bandwidth? imagine HDV @ 50mbs

October 11th, 2004, 07:17 PM	#5
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	If memory serves...Blu-Ray capacities are already at 52GB, and technbologies are currently being developed to bring that # up to 200GB. HD-DVD is stuck in the 30GB range if it wants to retain compatability with current DVD manufacturing systems. Both have recently adopted MPEG4 encoding to fit more video material on those discs. HD-DVD might also be moving to blue laser technology now. I don't think we'll know which is better until they finalize the formats, but for now Blu-Ray looks better...more expensive...but better. Blu-Ray players will have a red laser inside to read old discs.

October 11th, 2004, 09:37 PM	#7
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	We're only going to know the reliability after people have used the tech for awhile. We can, however, observe current DVD camcorders and see how well they hold up as the tech is highly comparable. Anybody (electronics retailers) have numbers on DVD camcorder repairs/returns versus tape based camcorder repairs for Sony Hitachi and Panny?

October 12th, 2004, 11:40 PM	#8
Harrison Murchison Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 243	HDV is tape only per the spec.

October 13th, 2004, 07:44 AM	#9
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Right. That's why I said that HD on 15GB disc media would be "HDV compatible". It would be the same HDV MPEG2 signal recorded to disc. Many people speculated (correctly, it seems for now) that Panasonic wouldn't adopt/endorse the HDV spec mostly because they want to move away from tape based recording.

October 13th, 2004, 08:23 AM	#10
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : Let's see if they can out-market Blu ray. -->>> I don't think they will have too work to hard at that, once users see one disc at 2-1 bucks and the other disc at 10 bucks the market will correct itself... current dvd production lines can be convereted to hd-dvd lines in 5 minutes, blu ray needs all new manufacturing techniques keeping costs higher... another way to look at it is always bet against sony and new media formats

October 13th, 2004, 11:52 AM	#11
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	DVD manufacturing can be converted to HD-DVD manufacturing very easily, but only for 30GB discs. If they want bigger discs, like Blu-Ray's current 52GB, then they have to change all the production lines anyway. Sony, et. al. are also already in the process of creating a 200GB 8-layer disc. Newest devleopments in this format war are HD-DVD using a blue laser, and Blu-Ray going MPEG2 to fit even more HD video on disc. Maybe we'll see a trend like Beta/VHS where Blu-Ray goes Pro, and HD-DVD is a consumer format, or HD-DVD will work for a few years at 30GB, and then we'll move right into 200GB Blu-Ray in 2009. but that would disprove this wise axiom... "another way to look at it is always bet against sony and new media formats"

November 15th, 2004, 12:49 AM	#13
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Blu-Ray is already pro, but the real question is, will it trickle down to consumers, or will the easy to produce 30GB HD-DVD format take that market over for now. I think Blu-Ray will remain the pro format, and HD-DVD the consumer format, just to stick it to everybody, and force the pros to have to buy twice the equipment.