HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war is good at DVinfo.net

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Old July 16th, 2005, 07:57 AM   #1
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HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war is good

It put strong competitive pressure on market, mean lot more innovative products, prices. Is important for HDV content distribution.

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Old July 16th, 2005, 01:27 PM   #2
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I don't think that you will get many to agree with you!!!

What did the SACD vs DVD-Audio do?
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Old July 16th, 2005, 02:36 PM   #3
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Besides, it's not even the competition that will kill both formats. It's the fact that the industry decided to have any resolution above 480p to be only output through encrypted HDMI connection. So the millions of people (including myself) with earlier HDTV sets will be screwed.

The new players will output through analog component only 480p signal and no real HD. If that's really the case, I hope that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray die a horrible death. People don't like overprotected formats that are not possible to backup, SACD and DVD-Audio being perfect examples. At least with SACD and DVD-Audio you can have a player and listen to the originals anytime and anywhere, but with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray you won't even be able to view it in HD except on the latest HDMI enabled TV sets. Who needs a bullsh*t like that? Not me.

I think SD DVD is here to stay for a very long time. We will all be shooting and editing in HD, but still downconverting to 480/576 for distribution to the masses. Because the masses aren't likely to accept such crappy formats, which you can't backup nor view in most cases.
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Old July 16th, 2005, 02:57 PM   #4
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Right!

[QUOTE=Hse Kha]I don't think that you will get many to agree with you!!!QUOTE]


I am one who would not agree for sure!

Competition is great in many fields, like making automobiles, or any product, like a lamp, that you compete with on looks, size etc. but you plug the damn thing into a wall socket and it works. When it comes to electronics all you end up with is orphaned products and disillusioned consummers.

If you wish to build a great little gadget for yourself great! But, if you want to sell one to me, it better come from a universal standard that I can count on being around for a while.

That is why there are so many international standards and standard setting groups. It is absolutely necessary!

If they do not come to a compromise, all that will occur is chaos, and many more orphaned products. Anyone who has already bought one of the Sony Blue-ray players now, you are going to be sorely disappointed in the future.

Thanks all,

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Old July 16th, 2005, 03:33 PM   #5
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Only one format will survive as a movie medium... the other might hang on for video games or data storage...I am not sure that is a good thing.

The SACD - DVD Audio arguement is not really valid as it seems. Stop and consider... EVERY single major retailer is PUSHING HDTV hard. Even my local WalMarts have an HDTV section, the same was not true of SACD or DVD-A. Quite frankly, the public stated loud and clear that convenience, not quality was the driving force in audio when they opted for MP3 players IN MASS!

That being said...TRUE HDTV wont really take off for YEARS and I'm sorry but average joe public cannot see much, if any, difference from 1080i and 480P on movies shot on traditional film. When Hollywood moves everything to HD, the difference will be more pronounced.

The HD movement will come but it wont be next year... or the next... technology NEVER moves as fast as you think and even though there may be a new format/gadget/innovation on the horizon, that does not mean the public really wants it...




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Old July 16th, 2005, 07:57 PM   #6
 
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1. There is no "war."
2. HD-DVD is already referred to as a temporary solution, not much different than 720p. It has physical limitations that for the most part BD does not.
3. It's nothing at all like the VHS/Beta scenario of the past, because in the past, Sony didn't own most of the world's most desirable content, and they didn't already have broadcaster support for Beta. Sony owns most of the world's desirable content from the consumer side, and XDCAM already has broadcasters embracing the format.
HD-DVD is not an expandable format, no one is suggesting it would be. It's a stop-gap since BD is not an inexpensive nor immediately available replication format. On the other hand, (at the moment) BD can manage up to 110 GB of storage with access times of 72 Mbps. HD-DVD can't remotely come close to that. But....it will be here, at least for a little while.
But to refer to it as a "war" is a little silly.
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Old July 16th, 2005, 09:38 PM   #7
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The only thing that an actual war would do is hurt people who jumped in early on the "losing" technology. In the long run, a war would just push people toward home theater pc's so they could have one of each drive in the comp and be able to play anything. Unfortunately, HD-DVD will be put to rest before then...

Of course, as soon as they figure out which of these to use, HVDs will be cheap enough to start the process all over again... Oh, the never ending cycle of technology...
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Old July 16th, 2005, 10:52 PM   #8
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I have a 2002 model 43" Sony HDTV with only analog component inputs for HD. If HD-DVD and Blu-Ray won't output 720p and 1080i via analog I am screwed. Does anyone want an $1800 door stop? I've already seen that the DVD players on the market that upconvert SD to HD only output the upconversion via HDMI so I guess this is really going to happen. Thanks Hollywood!
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Old July 17th, 2005, 09:09 PM   #9
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Well, there's still the forthcoming chinese hd dvd or blu ray players coming... And they will probably support analog component out... I mean, current chinese DVD players play almost everything already!
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Old July 18th, 2005, 12:33 AM   #10
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"The new players will output through analog component only 480p signal and no real HD"

You got a source for that, or are you speculating?
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Old July 18th, 2005, 04:57 AM   #11
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I have been wondering, what about computers / home theater PC's? I mean,
at the moment we have software DVD playeres for a computer. I would assume
that similar programs will arrive for HD-DVD / blue-ray and will simply at whatever
resolution you've set the screen to.

If you set this at some high resolution on a video card that has DVI or
component out the problem may be fixed? It may even have un-encrypted
HDMI connectors.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 11:50 AM   #12
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On the plus side - Sony and Phillips DID agree on CD format!

HD copy protection does seem to be taking a strange turn of events. Here are some observations I have made (OK maybe some thoughts too!).

Many folks are using various techniques to make DVDs look really good on HD sets. Some DVDs look even better than SOME HD stuff I've seen. Many folks are quite happy with this, and are quite content NOT to pursue getting any REAL HD content.

Hollywood seems to be saying they'll reduce resolution for copy protected stuff. My guess is that the VAST MAJORITY of people will be quite happy looking at this using "whatever" to make SD look "pretty darn good"! If HD DVDs of ANY variety cost more than existing DVDs, people might be quite content just leaving them alone and buy the old fashioned DVD. I know I have been pretty pleased with some HDNet stuff I recorded on Panasonic DMR-HS2 via S-video. Sure it's not HD, but I'll be willing to bet MOST people couldn't tell the difference unless they had both side-by-side to compare.

So what will be the result? Will the vast majority use downresed outputs only to upres them for viewing? Will the few techies find a way around CP anyway? Those in the professional "pirating" business will certainly find a way! Could Hollywood succeed mostly in aggravating potential customers?

Besides - why not just define folder and file structure (and compression) for HD DVDs and let it go on anything - even hard drives (like DVDs do)? That would be easy and inexpensive. OH! Silly me! I forgot about CP!

It just might be like the owner of an expensive diamond implementing a complex protection system to foul prospective thieves - then wear a fake because it's too difficult to navigate the walls of protection.

I don't have any answers. But I think it's entirely possible for copy protection to thwart the very market Hollywood would like to develop.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 12:12 PM   #13
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DSE: I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss Toshiba's HD DVD format or the battle which is brewing on how people will distribute and play HD video. Seems to me that the Toshiba format is quite adequate for most purposes and will have a big advantage if they get to market first with more affordable pricing than Sony's blu-ray, which they appear to be preparing to do. If I had to choose between a format that will available soon with inexpensive players, burners and discs, or one which ships later with much higher prices for everything, I'd favor the former for my purposes for now. Or like a lot of people I may decide to wait the whole thing out and just put HD video in compressed format on today's standard DVDs, which costs me almost nothing and can be played by customers today on any reasonably current computer or a $250 player with true HD component outputs. I think the whole HD DVD thing could turn out to be a flop for independent videographers given the more practical option available to us now, but we'll see what happens once customers have a choice about what they want to use.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 12:21 PM   #14
 
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I'm not at all dismissing the viability of the format of HD-DVD. The question is, what content will be available on HD-DVD? Not that much. With Sony owning so much of the world's content...that alone is a HUGE bit of leverage. Doesn't matter much what the consumer wants, if Sony doesn't want to license their media to HD-DVD manufacturers, then that somewhat sinks that ship really quickly, wouldn't you agree?
Research the BD spec, you'll quickly see why it's a long-term solution vs a short term one. I don't care for the cost of the dang things, and moreover, I don't care for having to buy a new player. But it's inevitable whether the new format is HD-DVD, BD, or little green bits of ground glass in a kaleidoscope.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 01:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle
With Sony owning so much of the world's content...that alone is a HUGE bit of leverage. Doesn't matter much what the consumer wants, if Sony doesn't want to license their media to HD-DVD manufacturers, then that somewhat sinks that ship really quickly, wouldn't you agree?
How do you figure the content thing? Skipping for the moment video games and music (which won't, I think, decide the question of the next format - I think it will be decided on films) Sony owns Columbia-Tri-Star and MGM/UA, and that's a lot.

On the other hand, HD-DVD has firm deals in place with Paramount and Warner Bros. (which together equal as much content as Sony has), and Disney and Fox seem to be willing to play both sides.

So content wise, they seem to be quite equal at the moment. What makes you say Sony owns the most?
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