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Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


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Old October 4th, 2011, 07:30 AM   #196
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

"Should" we expect it to be in a price point similar to the F3, or FS100?
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Old October 4th, 2011, 11:38 AM   #197
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

We will find out what is coming and at what price on November 3rd. I think we're all killing ourselves trying to predict what is really coming and how much is it going to cost and at this point....we are just going to have to wait. We did receive our invitation yesterday.....the event starts at 3pm PST....so sometime after that, I expect the press release to go out and of course, Chris will probably have it up on this site before everyone else....whether it is a printer, photo contest, 5D mkIII, or a "cinema camera", or,or Canon is buying RED, Panavision, & Paramount Studios!

There, I feel better....

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Last edited by Jim Martin; October 4th, 2011 at 11:39 AM. Reason: spacing
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Old October 4th, 2011, 11:47 AM   #198
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Canon already has the basic camera. How about the price of a Canon XF100, only a little bit of tweaking from there-- add a different sensor, rearrange the body a bit, and add an EOS mount. Everything else can remain close to same.
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Old October 4th, 2011, 12:49 PM   #199
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kalle View Post
EDIT: I don't want to get anyone in trouble; so, all I can say is that the camera 'should' be a large sensor video camera. It should be a major competitor to the F3. It should have a sensor size similar to the 7D with electrical EF/EF-S support and 50Mb 422 codec.

These 3 features alone should should make the camera extremely popular. Many people have been waiting for a real video camera to use their Canon glass with.
Wonder how long the line will be to purchase one? I CALL DIBS!!!
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Old October 4th, 2011, 01:02 PM   #200
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
Canon already has the basic camera. How about the price of a Canon XF100, only a little bit of tweaking from there-- add a different sensor, rearrange the body a bit, and add an EOS mount. Everything else can remain close to same.
I dont know about the price of the XF100, as Im sure they will mark it up more, but I am hoping for something similar in size.

Ill be content with APS-C sensor size, small ENG form factor, XDcam 4:2:2, clean HDMI (or HD-SDI), with EF mount. Im sure they will offer a PL mount option as discussed earlier for a different price point.

One month until we all cheer or wonder why Canon sold themselves short... lets hope for the former.
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Old October 4th, 2011, 01:33 PM   #201
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

If you are aware of all the shortcomings of the 5D & 7D chips in a dslr configuration (HEAT, moire, can't do quick pans,etc), it takes alot of time & research to overcome those hurdles. So, to say they can whip up a big chip camera in a XF100 body and sell it for close to the same price is......no

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Old October 4th, 2011, 02:38 PM   #202
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

I hope a new camera is in my future and I am trying to understand lens selection better.

The EF "L" series lens by Canon is a staple among pro still photographers. Few would disagree that their lenses, especially their newer lenses like the 70-200L II, 85L, 35L are top notch. Here is where my lack of knowledge starts. A 5D Mk II requires a great lens, and Canon definitely makes them in their L series. The amount of lens data/resolution/perfection needed for a single shot from the 5D II is more than a frame from video correct ?? As long as the electronics ( Aperture, IS, etc ) work, why isn't a top notch still lens an absolute marvelous lens for a video camera ?? Yet many here do not speak well of the still lens selection, but my thinking is that a still lens would have to be held to higher standards, Is that wrong ??
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Old October 4th, 2011, 02:42 PM   #203
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
why isn't a top notch still lens an absolute marvelous lens for a video camera ?
Because there is no way to change focal length smoothly and quietly during a shot.

If you never have to zoom during a shot, then a photo lens isn't a problem.

Said by a guy who thinks there's too much zooming during shots as it is, but recognizes the need for that capability.

A guy who thinks you can tell wonderful stories using moving images without ever changing focal length during a shot.

If it's a video lens, then it has a (very quiet) motorized zoom. Photo lenses don't.
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Old October 4th, 2011, 02:48 PM   #204
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Thanks Chris
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Old October 4th, 2011, 03:29 PM   #205
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Some of you are dreaming pretty big, so I'll just hope it has an awesome ON/OFF switch.

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Old October 4th, 2011, 03:42 PM   #206
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
I hope a new camera is in my future and I am trying to understand lens selection better.

The EF "L" series lens by Canon is a staple among pro still photographers. Few would disagree that their lenses, especially their newer lenses like the 70-200L II, 85L, 35L are top notch. Here is where my lack of knowledge starts. A 5D Mk II requires a great lens, and Canon definitely makes them in their L series. The amount of lens data/resolution/perfection needed for a single shot from the 5D II is more than a frame from video correct ?? As long as the electronics ( Aperture, IS, etc ) work, why isn't a top notch still lens an absolute marvelous lens for a video camera ?? Yet many here do not speak well of the still lens selection, but my thinking is that a still lens would have to be held to higher standards, Is that wrong ??
A few more reasons why photo lenses are not preferred for video versus ENG zoom lenses and PL mount cine lenses:

1) with PL Cine lenses, you get a standard film pitch for the aperture and focus (and zoom if a zoom lens). Most sets of lenses all have the same location of iris and focus gears so changing between lenses is faster and easier because you don't have to move the follow focus. One good example is Cooke and their Panchro set and more expensive S4 and S5 lenses. Each set has identical iris and focus placement.

2) most Cine lenses do NOT breathe (slightly changing focal length when focusing) whereas most SLR lenses DO breathe. With still images, breathing is not a problem but with video, it is very noticeable, and in my humble opinion, breathing makes the video look cheap. However, some SLR lenses do not breathe such as the Zeiss ZF2 and the Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS (first version - I have not seen the newer 'II' version yet). On the cine side, the Zeiss CP.2 do breathe but the Cooke Panchro, S4 & S5 do not in addition to most ENG lenses.

3) On SLR lenses, the aperture has 'steps', usually in 1/3 stop increments (a few have 1/4 stop increments). With Canon lenses, you don't even have an aperture ring so using a follow focus on the iris is not possible in addition to the inherent issues of not having an iris ring.

4) Almost all SLR zoom lenses are vari-focal which means the focus plane moves as the the focal length changes when zooming. Thus, when zooming during a shot, you must also pull focus at the same time. Almost all ENG and Cine zooms are par-focal which means the focus plane remains constant throughout the zoom range.

5) On a related note, many SLR lenses change length when zooming and/or focusing. This is a major problem with a mattebox and follow focus. All of the best 24-70 lenses change length (Canon L, Nikon, Sony/Zeiss). Many prime lenses change length when focusing including the Sony/Zeiss 85mm/1.4 and 135mm/1.8 as well as many Canon L primes.

6) My personal favorite reason why I prefer cine lenses: many of them have more than 9 aperture blades, which make gorgeous bokeh. The best bokeh I have ever seen is from the Scheider Cine-Xenar lenses with 18 EIGHTEEN blades! I posted a video in the F3 forum showing a comparison of the Xenar and CP.2 lenses which show this amazing bokeh. Even the CP.2 have 12 or 14 blades and some Xenar's have 12, 14 or 18 blades. I know of only 1 SLR lens with more than 9 blades, the Sony 135mm T4.5/F2.8 'STF' (Smooth Trans Focus) with 10 blades. This lens is designed to create amazing bokeh and it has the best bokeh of any SLR lens I have seen.

7) Lastly, Cine lenses use a T-stop rather than F-stop. The T-stop is the actual amount of light being transmitted whereas the F-stop relates to the size of the iris. Most SLR lenses have a different T-stop from the actual F-stop. With a F2.8, the actual amount of light can be T2.4 or T3.0.

Hope this helps :)
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Old October 4th, 2011, 03:50 PM   #207
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

""Hope this helps :)""

Yes, ALOT thanks.
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Old October 4th, 2011, 03:56 PM   #208
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
""Hope this helps :)""

Yes, ALOT thanks.

I updated it so be sure to refresh your browser to see the added info.
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Old October 4th, 2011, 04:06 PM   #209
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Wow, great post, Steve. I hope the Nov 3rd announcement includes some new Canon PL primes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kalle View Post
With a F2.8, the actual amount of light can be T2.4 or T3.0.
Minor correction: the T-stop is always slower than the f-stop. Also, the stops (both T- and f-) are only valid for infinity. The closer you focus, the more inaccurate it is. The degree of inaccuracy will depend on the lens design; specifically, pupil magnification. There's also a slight inaccuracy at very wide f-numbers (e.g. f/1 does not give double the light of f/1.4 due to the fact that f-number is only an approximation).
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Old October 4th, 2011, 04:13 PM   #210
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kalle View Post
. On the cine side, the Zeiss CP.2 do breathe but the Cooke Panchro, S4 & S5 do not in addition to most ENG lenses.
Nearly every 2/3" ENG zoom lens I've used breathes, the exceptions are usually the wide angle zooms which don't breathe (well to a noticeable extent).
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