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Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


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Old October 25th, 2011, 05:20 PM   #331
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

The pro line is the XFs....and "any future cameras from the professional line will utilize the XF codec" to quote Canon last year.
As for your model #s.....great suggestion although I think its going to have XF in there.

Anyone else?

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Old October 25th, 2011, 07:42 PM   #332
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Well...

Jannard uses color. Apple uses cat names. So I actually think the Canon folks will fall under the spell of some new age marketing "genius" and will henceforth wise up and start a new marketing trend that's more closely related to their core brand nomenclature.

On my short list? The Howitzer Canon?, the Gettysburg Canon, the Pachelbel Canon or perhaps even the Dyan Canon?

Just thinking out loud here.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 11:24 PM   #333
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Bring back the Scoopic, I say.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 12:42 AM   #334
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

This Nov. 3rd announcement sounds much larger than a camera announcement. Canon just announced the newest version of their flagship camera, a super power still camera that apparently is also aimed to be their prime option for DSLR moviemaking, through a simple press release. Why think they would have a large announcement for an FS100- or F3-type camera, or any camera for that matter? This is so much bigger, and the new Canon tech and training center in Hollywood is a large hint of what's to come: Canon taking on the Hollywood scene in some form or fashion. A premier high-end digital cinema camera might also be thrown in the mix of it all, but if it is, it's likely to be something along the lines of Alexa, Epic, F23, or F35...something for the big filmmakers of Hollywood, not anything geared toward consumers or prosumers.

This is what's got Red so spooked, as they've focused a lot of their efforts in the last few years in getting their products into the hands of Hollywood filmmakers. But Red's banking on the success of their much-anticipated Scarlet--Hollywood specs, in a smaller, more "affordable" package.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 02:24 AM   #335
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
Bring back the Scoopic, I say.
In some respects the Scarlet fixed zoom has its roots in the Scoopic.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 02:28 AM   #336
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

On the prosumer market, Canon was the last one to release its first HDV camcorder, the XLH1, but it was better that its competitors. Same thing happened with its first camcorder that record on cards, the XF300 which offer a much better codec than XDCAM EX or AVCHD, and less exepensive that P2.
So it seems that Canon is a follower which release more mature products than its competitors (on the prosumer market).
That's why I think a F3 or FS100-like camcorder with XMF codec would fit with the historical Canon's strategy. Especially because Sony and Panasonic have made the mistake of to equip their FS 100 and AG-AF101 with a cheap codec. Canon can correct this easily and may think that's enough.
Of course the ability to record 4K would be a very pleasant surprise, but I don't dare to hope it.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 08:36 AM   #337
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Since we are waiting for Nov 3rd to arrive I have some questions. I have little/no knowledge of the big screen industry so I am just asking.

4k cinema ?? If Star Wars was shot on the F900, why do theatres need 4k ???

With the F900R being such a cinematic camera, why do we need CMOS ??



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Old October 26th, 2011, 08:53 AM   #338
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
If Star Wars was shot on the F900, why do theatres need 4k ???
Because... Star Wars was shot on the F900.

Please excuse the Anglophile analogy, but it was a 'courageous decision' to film on the F900. Best technology at the time. Mostly greenscreen, so DoF not an issue. But even in PAL, you can see the pips squeak.

Having seen 4K projected in good conditions a few times now, it is a worthy thing to behold. Even 2K done right is pretty darn good, but 4K is that 'window onto reality'. If one wanted to shoot pictures now and still have them sell with reasonable prices in 20 years time, shoot 4k. 10 years time, 2k. IMHO.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 09:38 AM   #339
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

4k would really depend on the market you're aiming at, very few films have a theatrical life of 20 years, but 4k could make sense as an option for a current theatrical release. If you're going to blur the background with an extremely shallow DOF you may also have to ask why you're shooting in 4K, because you're throwing away the detail.

If you're shooting for TV you'd have to factor the extra cost of post for the 4k in your budget, which may not make worthwhile.given how much tighter the budgets are becoming..
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Old October 26th, 2011, 10:15 AM   #340
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
Bring back the Scoopic, I say.
Hey, I used to own that cam! Man oh man, that takes me back....

And haven't regretted for a minute selling off all my film cameras for a Canon XL-1 since.

Come to think of it, even the XL-1 seems like an antique now.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 10:53 AM   #341
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

With all this speculation concerning Canon's new (alleged) supersonic, zillion mbs 4:4:4, camera going on, can i remind everyone of my favourite Hitchcock quote:

"To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script and the script."

Sorry, i realise there is a techy orgy going on at the mere mention of a press release - and yes i'm interested too - but lets keep things in focus. We're already more fortunate than we've ever been, and it's hard to imagine this press release - and whatever follows - will make the slightest difference.

Rant over. Let's see what Nov 3 brings.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 11:20 AM   #342
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Mendoza View Post
.................

This is what's got Red so spooked, as they've focused a lot of their efforts in the last few years in getting their products into the hands of Hollywood filmmakers. But Red's banking on the success of their much-anticipated Scarlet--Hollywood specs, in a smaller, more "affordable" package.
Is Red spooked? It seems at this point Scarlet may sit in it's own niche. Panasonic, Sony, and Canon are likely competing for the same under $15K customer.
It seems to me that Canon as the new kid in the pro space needs to be better than the F3. Why buy Canon if the new camera is an F3 equivalent at a couple thousand dollar discount? Something needs to be better than Sony to win converts.
The market for 3-4K true cinema cameras seems small and crowded. I can only see Canon wading into that competition as part of a larger pro video strategy. Does Arri even sell 100 Alexa's a month?
The "for sure" demand is for a DSLR video replacement - a new camera without the operating inconveniences and imagining artifacts. I'm not sure Canon can produce that replacement for those buyers while resisting the temptation to artificially cripple the new product.
I'm sure the sales figures for the AF100 (whatever those are) influence Canon's new product choice.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 12:40 PM   #343
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Martin View Post
If a camera is coming, its time to guess the name! Back when the XF100 &105 were announced, we posters here at DVinfo started guessing the name of the next camera.....we had the XF300/305 then the 100/105 and I think some people thought that there might be a XF200 or 205 coming....I went the other way and said XF500....some said if it was a "cinema style" camera, maybe it would be a XF35.....but I thought that was too close to the Sony F35....so, lets start this up again! Anyone care to guess? If the rumors are true in regards to 2 cameras, I'm gonna go with XF500EF & XF505PL.....

Jim Martin
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If Canon releases a semi-shoulder mount in the old dependable XL style then it will probably be called the XL-F1, or perhaps the XL-35. It seems unlikely at this point though, as the trend these days is for smaller modular designs like the AF100, FS100 etc.

End of an era?
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Old October 26th, 2011, 12:40 PM   #344
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Canon won't cripple their product for two reasons....1) in the past, they did hold back because they were selling all those lenses to Panasonic & Sony. At last year's NAB(2010), Sony got very upset with Canon for putting out the XF300/305, priced to compete with the EXs but on a higher, broadcast codec at that same price point($7500). With both Panasonic & Sony, if you want the higher codec, you have to spend more money.....they don't want to sacrifice their higher end sales. 2) since Canon doesn't have those higher end cameras, they don't have to worry about it....the current XFs, and anything that might get announced on Nov. 3rd, are their high end cameras, so, at this point, I don't see Canon holding back any more........which means we all win!

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PS - Chris, You're brilliant!
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Old October 26th, 2011, 01:13 PM   #345
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Red is also competing with that sub-$15,000 demographic. The line of Scarlet cams and "low-end" Epic(s) look to take on all cams up to the F3 ($4,000-$20,000 range), with the promise of 4K+, variable frame rates, and modularity. It's likely their intention to take over the whole gamut of videographer, from the prosumer to the Hollywood pro.

Canon will likely be wading themselves into the competition, but definitely on a larger scale...the Hollywood scale. Not sure they'll be concerning themselves with the prosumer demographic with this Nov. 3rd announcement. As far as "we're" concerned, they probably feel they've addressed us in terms of DSLR cinema (for the time being, at least) with the 1DX announcement. I wonder if a 5D Mark III or low-end cinema camera a la the F3 is even in the near future.

Canon's gonna attack Red's stomping grounds--Hollywood--and likely look to establish themselves as the goto high-end digital product carrier for the cinema world as they've done for years now in the photography world. Bold.
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