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Old October 29th, 2011, 02:24 AM   #376
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence Bansbach View Post
Wow, that's underwhelming.
I gave you 2 very small pieces of info and purposely left out what I really know. If I said that Sony was releasing a single camera with a 35Mb 420 codec and proprietary F mount, that would seem 'underwhelming' as well, but that was the F3 just a year ago, and that camera has been anything but underwhelming.

See, this is the problem with a company announcing an announcement. The rumor mill goes crazy and too many people get their hopes up for some revolutionizing and amazing camera.

For me, a truly revolutionary camera would have modular recording options like the PIX240 and its caddy options. Give me choices between recording to CF, SxS and SSD and recording to 8bit MPEG2 422, 8bit H264 and 10bit AVC-Intra. This lets people choose what they need.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 05:27 AM   #377
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

My guess is it's not film
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Old October 29th, 2011, 06:44 AM   #378
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by Justin Molush View Post
The low end camera BETTER have SDI out OR a clean HDMI feed. That would break the deal for me... XF105 would be better for my application then....
But...... what do most people want the HD-SDI or HDMI output on the AF100 or FS100 for? Isn't it to record to a "better than AVC-HD" codec?

Build that in - be it XDCAM422, AVC-Intra 100, or any such broadcast approved codec - and doesn't much of the need for the higher spec outputs go away? (Together with the need for an external recorder, period.)
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Old October 29th, 2011, 07:35 AM   #379
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Exactly. Who would really bother using an external recorder on a Canon XF305? There would be limited uses for it, probably more suited to a studio environment. But for most applications the 50mbs 4:2:2 codec would get the job done.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 08:08 AM   #380
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

The HD SDI or HDMI is handy for a monitor or (depending on the form factor) an external viewfinder. Hopefully Canon have taken on board all the comments about the F3's arrangement, so the layout doesn't need a 3rd party V/F.

If it's got a broadcast approved codec, that should satisfy the productions most people will be using the camera for. However, if it's getting into the F3 range, having the external recorder option would become a competitive requirement for those people shooting dramas or commercials, using either log or even RAW for acquisition.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 08:53 AM   #381
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
......... if it's getting into the F3 range, having the external recorder option would become a competitive requirement ....... using either log or even RAW for acquisition.
Yes, but if at the F3 end of the price range I'd take HD-SDI as read. I find it highly likely we'll be seeing two models (as with the F3/FS100) and the earlier comments are more concerned with a possible FS100 price competitor. And I think it's unrealistic to expect log or RAW at that price point. Though HDMI at least is reasonable to expect. We'll see. I just don't see lack of the outputs as much of as much of an issue on this hypothetical camera as it would be on the AF100/FS100.

As regards log/RAW, then that really means more than just HD-SDI anyway, doesn't it? Access to the data much earlier in the chain than when processed to form even HD-SDI?
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Old October 29th, 2011, 09:14 AM   #382
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kalle View Post
I gave you 2 very small pieces of info and purposely left out what I really know. If I said that Sony was releasing a single camera with a 35Mb 420 codec and proprietary F mount, that would seem 'underwhelming' as well, but that was the F3 just a year ago, and that camera has been anything but underwhelming.

..............
Although there's significant price cutting on the F3 already. Which is interesting. Perhaps the skimpy codec is not as acceptable as you believe.

There's little cost difference in delivering better anymore. It's just the Japanese oligopoly delivering the bare minimum each year. Fortunately with Red and to some extent Canon video price/performance may begin to resemble the actual price/performance curve of the underlining technology.

Not that the whole kit will ever be remotely inexpensive. It's too specialized. And great glass is still apparently expensive to make. But putting a small codec like the F3 and then messing with s-log is just a game played by Sony to differentiate the F3 from their more expensive models.

IMO, the fundamental fact that we're going to be at 1080p for many, many years means the Japanese probably don't have a workable long term business model.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 10:31 AM   #383
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Heath View Post
As regards log/RAW, then that really means more than just HD-SDI anyway, doesn't it? Access to the data much earlier in the chain than when processed to form even HD-SDI?
Indeed, HD SDI would just be being used as a feed to monitors or other accessories in such a case. A suitable output for the data for recording also being a requirement over and above the basic HD SDI, depending if it doesn't have a means of on board recording.

However, even on a FS100/AF100 type version, a HD SDI or HDMI would still be a requirement for a monitor, since nearly every production seems to need one for production people, if not the camera people. I agree that there would be little need for most people to use an external recorder if there's a broadcast codec being recorded on the camera itself.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 12:40 PM   #384
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

I think Steve was simply telling part of the story. Whether he is under an NDA or just his word to not give out any other information & spoil the big announcement on Nov. 3rd i think is the right thing to do. I'm sure there are many others that know what is going on, but have given their word not to let the cat out of the bag. We need to respect their loyalty to Canon for keeping their knowledge a secret. Kudos to all those who choose not to let that information out simply to have the spotlight for a very brief moment. Of course i am sure that anyone who did so would ever be privy to any sensitive information from any company after that!

It is great though, reading about what people would love to see Canon release. This thread has been a great read, & every evening i look forward to reading the new posts.

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Old October 29th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #385
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

and as a reminder....Canon Japan is reading this and other threads & blogs....it was something I talked about with the team making the XF300/305 3 years ago...and they confirmed to me the next NAB that they were...to quote " Mr Martin, we have been reading"....I said "great, where is my camera"...he said "patience".

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

PS...only the people who are on NDAs really know what's coming, and the rest is hearsay & wishful thinking. I would put forward that someone posting "this is what's coming" should be taken with a grain of.......
WE find out in 5 days....then WE will know for sure.....I'm excited!
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Old October 29th, 2011, 02:24 PM   #386
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

From a “inside source”

Super large sensor: Twice size as the Canon 5D, but lower pixel count to control or eliminate moire and aliasing issues.

14-bit uncompressed 6.3K RAW at 9 FPS, 4800 Mbps

Multiple EOS mounts to support all makes of camera lenses.

XLR inputs. Tracks are individually adjustable.

External and internal NDs.

Low noise up to 9400 ISO

External outputs 4:4:4 for external recording.

Component design for any and all accessory add ons.

12 inch HD on camera monitor LCD, with swing down slightly magnified eyepiece.

Tri-SD card slots for continuous recording.

No Rolling Shutter

The word 4K is stamped with engraved gold around it's 2.8 3D capable 40x zoom lens. Like a pearl of great price, Gemini 4:4:4 is written on the back panel. The shipping box contained a free and unlimited use of a newly designed state of the art NLE, that will work on Apple, Linux or PC operating systems.



From a unconfirmed source, and found written with a magic marker, on the inside of a men's bathroom door, at Paramount Studio.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 02:35 PM   #387
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Sensor is only 72mm? 40X f/2.8 3D zoom? Wow, that's underwhelming. Wake me up when it's 150mm sensor with 80X f/1.4 lens.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 03:20 PM   #388
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Although I too think 50mbits is a sure thing, there must be a 2nd in camera recording option at a much higher bitrate and/or color depth. Something at least equal with 1DX's unspecified intraframe codec.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 03:34 AM   #389
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

It'll be interesting on Nov 4 and after for a few ? till the user reviews come in, standby for crazy time.

To keep the hype going if Canon have really done their thing properly, then they should have follow up 'announcements' to keep the ball rolling.

Cheers.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 11:19 AM   #390
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

There are currently three price points for the affordable s35 cameras:

-under $6k: 1Dx, FS100, AF100
-under $14k: F3
-under $20k: F3+SLog+KiPro

Canon should either lower those price points with a similar product or improve the current offerings at the same price target. Anything else won't affect the market or buying decisions much.
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