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Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


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Old September 16th, 2011, 08:51 PM   #46
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Looking forward to this...!
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Old September 17th, 2011, 01:03 AM   #47
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Based on what little is known (and what has been said here already) I think the following assumptions are fairly safe:

-Given the timing of the announcement, location at Paramount, and Canon's history, it is a revolutionary new camera announcement and will be aimed at the creative indie filmmaker since they already have the XA, XH, and XF series for corporate/event video. The big-budget studio arena is crowded with $50-100k competitors and Canon's never really had a seat at that table anyway. The $3-10k segment has some great offerings from Sony and Panasonic, but all have their flaws as well. Canon has had just enough time to design a model that will one-up the competition.

-It will be a large-format sensor - probably APS-C to reduce heat build-up - and with the DIGIC 5 processor. The 3x 1/3" chip market is already flooded and practically obsolete for digital filmmaking moving forward. Larger sensors with better low light & shallow DOF are what creative filmmakers want.

-It will have interchangeable lenses. Canon already has a huge offering of great glass; with the discontinuation of the XL-H1 it makes sense that they would want to sell a camcorder to put behind their lenses. The only question here is: will it have an EF or PL mount? I think it will be EF.

-It will have full manual controls, but will it be through physical buttons/dials, or via touchscreen?

Other stuff like codec, bitrate, features, I/O connectors, storage medium, etc. remains to be seen, but my gut feeling is that it will be designed to compete with the AF100, FS100, and Scarlet.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 05:55 AM   #48
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Earth shattering would be F3 specs at an FS100 price. At this point in time, having listened to the professional consumers, Canon could easily make earth shattering news by going through the isles with their shopping cart selecting the best features of all. One that stands out in my mind is not needing to purchase an external recorder, 444 recording internal, dual cheap memory, large optical or HD monitor, great imaging chip, and could dual configure to shoulder or front (think about that one) . I think all of us would love to push that buggy, we could easily pick out a dream camcorder. Perhaps Canon has.

What is the difference between the F3 and FS 100 electronics wise ?? probably a $ 1000 worth of components and better software and maybe some licensing. In reality, I bet the F3's actual cost is not far from the FS 100. Maybe Canon will target this gap.


A new sensor technology is probably going to be the big bang on the 3rd, perhaps the huge increase in dynamic range rumors are true ! ! !

http://www.canon.com/news/2011/sep15e.html

"Through the further development of distinctive CMOS image sensors, Canon will break new ground in the world of new image expression, in the areas of still images as well as video".
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Old September 17th, 2011, 08:40 AM   #49
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Daniel, the FS100 is hardly a consumer camera. It's professional all the way.
Some of the guesses as to the nature of the announcement are really becoming pie-in the-sky. I think some of you are setting yourselves up for a big disappointment. It's OK to dream and all, but there's just not enough info for any type of serious discussion.
I'm leaning toward the announcement having something to do with the "Imagina8ion" contest. That way, if the announcment is on the contest, I'll expect as much. But if it is a new whiz-bang camera, then the announcement will exceed my expectations.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 08:47 AM   #50
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

I agree Glen, I was mainly speaking of price. I would love to own the FS 100 and have thought several times about it but held off.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 09:01 AM   #51
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Even the price is hardly consumer, as I just bought one. But it's an exciting piece of equipment. After awhile, you can get stale working with the typical 3-chip video camera. But this large sensor cam opens up a whole new world of creative possibilities.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 12:40 PM   #52
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

So no one thinks 3D, eh? :)
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Old September 17th, 2011, 12:50 PM   #53
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
Speculation?
  • Super35mm-sized 3:2 sensor
  • Next-generation resolution: 28 MP (6.3K)
  • 14-bit uncompressed 6.3K RAW at 9 FPS, 2800 Mbps
  • 10-bit compressed 6.3K RAW, 30 FPS at 400 Mbps
  • 8-bit MPEG-2 4:2:2 1080p 60 FPS at 100Mbps
  • Media: Any standard 2.5-inch SATA-II SSD (up to 3,072 Mbps)
  • New line of hybrid video/still lenses with new short backfocus "EF-V" lens mount
  • New short backfocus lens mount with adapters for EF, PL, and Leica mounts.
  • 2 XLR, HDMI out, 1x SDI out, timecode.
  • Maximum recording time with 512 GB SSD:
  • 21 minutes uncompressed raw 9 FPS
  • 174 minutes compressed raw 30 FPS
  • 700 minutes MPEG-2 1080p/60p
  • $8,000 MSRP body only
  • $3,000 20-60mm f/2.8 IS EF-V
  • $3,000 15-150mm f/3.5-5.6 IS EF-V
  • $3,000 20-400mm f/8-16 IS EF-V
  • A Pony
  • World peace
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Old September 17th, 2011, 12:57 PM   #54
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

I think its safe to say that Canon, by the wording on the announcement..."Global"....and the event being held at Paramount, is being very bold.......which means to me that they are going to have something or somethings that are really Bold in the world of cinematography. Also, in the past Canon has held back a bit so as not to jeopardize their relationship with Sony & Panasonic (lenses).....from what I understand, that relationship is over so I expect that Canon is not going to hold back any more.....which is great for all of us ...and I personally think what is going to be revealed is going to be jaw-dropping!

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com
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Old September 17th, 2011, 01:05 PM   #55
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

I've been fairly dissappointed with all the camera makers lately. They seem to hit around what we would like - creating a camera with some features here and another with some other features there. Sony's FS100 looked promising, but lack of lenses and poor build kind of made me hold off buying one - for now. We'll see what Canon comes up with as well as Red. This is a good time for us - we may actually get a camera with many of the features we've been requesting in one camera.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 02:13 PM   #56
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Couper View Post
So no one things 3D, eh? :)
Yes! :) JVC, Sony, Panasonic already have 3D camcorders
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Old September 17th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #57
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Global ? ? ? OK

One camera, exhibition quality stills and broadcast quality video with no DSLR limitations. A true modern still and video camera in one.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 02:44 PM   #58
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

I'm going to do the "Price is Right" & bet $1.

Canon announcement: 7D Mark II
Exactly the same as the 7D, but it now has a firmware update that turns off AGC.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 03:10 PM   #59
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Falbey View Post
-Given the timing of the announcement, location at Paramount, and Canon's history, it is a revolutionary new camera announcement and will be aimed at the creative indie filmmaker since they already have the XA, XH, and XF series for corporate/event video. The big-budget studio arena is crowded with $50-100k competitors and Canon's never really had a seat at that table anyway. The $3-10k segment has some great offerings from Sony and Panasonic, but all have their flaws as well. Canon has had just enough time to design a model that will one-up the competition.

...................

Other stuff like codec, bitrate, features, I/O connectors, storage medium, etc. remains to be seen, but my gut feeling is that it will be designed to compete with the AF100, FS100, and Scarlet.
I think all that is pretty well said. Canon have huge experience with sensors with their stills line, and were largely responsible for starting the large-format craze. I don't think current DSLR video is anywhere near ideal for a lot of reasons, but Canon more than anyone have had a lot of time to think about it and get a video-centred (as opposed to still centred) product right. They've also had chance to see what Sony and Panasonic got right - and what they got wrong.

Assuming that, the big question may be whether they go for something that competes more directly with the FS100/AF100, or the F3 in terms of price? My gut feeling is the former, and one obvious thing they may do is make it XDCAM422 50Mbs/Compact Flash - same as their XF300/100. That's pretty cheap to implement, yet gives it a full broadcast standard codec out of the box, and that alone gives it a big advantage over the FS100/AF100. (No more expense or hassle of external recorders.) There are plenty of other things about the latter two that could also be improved on fairly easily, and with the broadcast codec Canon could really clean up.

Alternatively, if they went more head on to the F3, 4k may be a definite possibility, and if (say) coupled with a decent in-built codec recording direct to CompactFlash, that would really give the F3 a run for it's money.

Or just maybe, we might see both? Two models, along the lines of the XF300/100?

Either way, unless you have a pressing and immediate need, I think it would be a very, very foolish idea to buy an AF100, FS100 or F3 until November.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 03:24 PM   #60
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

I mentioned at reduser that the final project from "Project Imagin8ion" was only to be said to have been shot on "Canon cameras". While the material for the teaser and behind the scene content was shot on current bodies, it would be a great PR move to have a high profile director like Ron Howard on board for a new product. Great exposure.

In terms of current technology and what can be pushed into a HDSLR or XF or XL series type body 4k is certainly possible. I would say that even 120fps at 1080p or 2K is also possible in there. I'm hoping for more than 4:2:2, but that will be the minimum expectation. Everybody wants a raw format, I do too. It's certainly possible with current editing software. I would love a similar implementation to how .R3D is handled. But who knows.

It will likely be somewhere in the $5k-$16k range to compete with Sony's offerings (also don't forget RED will be eventually producing a camera in this bracket). Right now Canon isn't "killing it" in the world of interchangeable lens camcorder bodies and clearly the success of the 5D Mark II and 7D has had to have made an impact. Let's hope they really charge forward here.

What they need to really address is moire, rolling shutter, and true(r) pure resolution. ISO performance we know will be addressed. Usable and I would dare say clean ISO 6400 and maybe up to 12800, perhaps beyond. No reason not to with today's technology.

Sensor size is really the interesting bit here. They can indeed go the easy route and produce a S35 chip and compete nicely. But Canon could also go FF35 and be the only game in town (and hopefully have a 1.5x or 1.6x crop mode in there). We might even see multiple bodies released with different sized sensors. A new product line really similar to their still camera mindset.

There will certainly be a lens or two announced if we see a new body/system. It might be interesting if they announce a new motion-centric style of lenses with less breathing, geared barrels, and focus locked zooming.

If they don't go with an EF mount I think that would be an utter tragedy and failure on their part.
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