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Old September 21st, 2011, 02:38 AM   #106
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Sanders View Post
Folks, I hate to burst some bubbles, but Canon has never competed in the super high-end video/cinema market. Ever. I see no signs that they are changing anything.

Honestly, 4K downstream from the sensor is completely unrealistic. Canon lives and breathes in the "prosumer" market. That's 1080p and will continue to be 1080p for a good long time. Sure, Canon might use marketing mumbo jumbo and say "we've developed a brand new 4K sensor specifically designed for video applications", but they will definitely go the ARRI route and offer a 1080p file-based format.

On to something else (rhetorical, emotional and flamey)...

I don't know who said that Canon came inappropriately dressed to the party with the XLH1, but I find that somewhat offensive... I know it was difficult for the HVX fanboys to see anything beyond their own adulation for their 1/2 res sensor, but the XLH1 was a bad-ass little camera in all categories (yes, even including it's HDV implementation) and I don't think Canon conceded anything to Panasonic. Also it probably stung the JVC guys pretty badly after they dropped a load of cash on a 720p camera with interchangeable lenses only to have the XLH1 hand them their lunch.... all accomplished with a sensor that was superior in overall resolution, suffered from zero rolling shutter artifacts and did all of this with... a CCD! Doh! [/flamey emotional rant]
I think 1080p will be just fine for most users out there - it'll do me anyway. What will be interesting to see is if they release 2 versions of the camera as has been predicted. 4K would be a good route for people planing theatrical releases and for people who are looking to 'future-proof' their footage (especially important for people shooting wildlife and stock footage for instance).

The XLH1 was and is a great camera, but I wish Canon would have supported it with more lenses (the 6x lens is great, but that was the only one released other than the stock). I see the XLH1 is still used a great deal by the wildlife documentary fraternity; other than the EX3 there are not too many other options to use big photographic lenses out there. Adding a nanoflash has kept my XLH1 up to date I feel; I recently sold some footage to an international news broadcaster, and that footage ran alongside footage from professional XDCAM HD cameras (they were happy to accept nanoflash mxf 4:2:2 @ 50mbs - I doubt they would have accepted HDV though).

The point is that if canon release a S35 camera with the mxf codec then I figure I would use this alongside the XLH1/nanoflash (as the XLH1 still does a fine job in run-and-gun situations) - so I wont be retiring it anytime soon.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 05:02 AM   #107
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere View Post
Surely is going to be an exiting day.
"exiting day"? Ominous ..... and stop calling me Shirley!

Grazie
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Old September 21st, 2011, 05:14 AM   #108
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

OK. Two posts over at RedUser are fueling this:

They have just announced that Scarlet will be shipping before the end of the year. This is unexpected as I thought Scarlet was dead (they were going to release the Epic-S instead which would be a dumbed down version of Epic):
SCARLET........

Also Jannard announced that everything is going to change:
Everything changes......

So to save you the trouble the 2 threads can be condensed into these two points:

1) Scarlet is back.
2) This is a change brought about due to the competition.

What competition? Nothing new has been announced, and this certainly cant be a sudden change brought about by the AF100, FS100, F3 which have been around for a while.

Hmmmmm..........
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Old September 21st, 2011, 05:25 AM   #109
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Oh......BTW.

RED will be announcing on......you guessed it.......November 3rd!

Jannard says, and I quote, he will be going "head to head" with Canon.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread....4-November-3rd...
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Old September 21st, 2011, 05:59 AM   #110
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
RED will be announcing on......you guessed it.......November 3rd!

Jannard says, and I quote, he will be going "head to head" with Canon.
Boy are they going to feel dumb if it's just a printer.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 06:17 AM   #111
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

I think, at this point, its safe to assume that its not going to be a printer. Presumably RED have some inside knowledge (given that according to rumours a number of prototypes are being used in the field).

Its an interesting strategy of RED, to announce Scarlet on the same day as Canon. It will allow the audience to compare spec to spec (and probably most importantly in this category compare the prices).

Somebody is going to ave the wind knocked out of their sails if the cameras are aimed at the same users...
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Old September 21st, 2011, 06:56 AM   #112
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Price war :)

Anyone old enough to remember riding in non airconditioned cars as dad pointed out the price wars on gas station signs, and you didn't get out of your car, 29 cents per gallon ? ? the first was a 51 chevy, then a ford falcon that had an amazing new feature, a rear window that went up and down with the push of a switch, how cool was that :) A used black and white television was 500 bucks and movie cameras were for the well off. Our house had a brownie. You could always tell when something good was coming on television because Dad could be heard yelling at one of us kids "right there, no back a little" only us old folks will no what that means.

Now we are waiting on 4k camcorders and Chris is out saving minnows, my how times have changed ! ! !
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Old September 21st, 2011, 08:38 AM   #113
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Price war :)
I love that!
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Old September 21st, 2011, 09:46 AM   #114
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
Tim -- both England (BBC) and Japan (NHK) are testing 4K and 8K for broadcast.

They were doing this *last year* even. Over IP. The future is now, folks. See this link:

Super Hi-Vision advances over IP - main-content | TVBEurope Magazine Online & In Print

Also, just recently at IBC2011: 8K live over IP from London to Amsterdam.

Super Hi Vision Wows Audiences at IBC 2011 | 3D News from 3D Focus

Think 2012 Olympics...
I still stand by my point that buying a 4k camera today will not have very many uses for most of the video community. Blu-ray is limited to 1080p. Internet bandwidth in most of the world is far away from streaming 3k, 4k. Broadcaster's are compressing the 720p/1080i to death just to make room on the channel dial.

So it looks like 4k will be useful for major release movies, wildlife future proofing and reframing options in post. Outside of that you will not be able to deliver it to anybody. I just think it is too quick to make this leap for $10,000 and under cameras.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 09:55 AM   #115
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

So, Jannard's announcement does lend some credence to Canon announcing some type of digital cinema camera. Maybe.
Interesting times. I think this is the first time Jim has actually placed a real date on Scarlet's release. Now, whether you can actually place an order for the Scarlet on that date, we'll see. But he does mention shipping info, and that it will be for 2011.
More rumors on the Canon anouncement:

HD Magazine - HD Mag - Possible Specs For New Canon VideoCamera?

IF there is a new Canon camera, and IF it does use the XF 4:2:2, 50mbps codec - wow!
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Old September 21st, 2011, 11:28 AM   #116
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

There is that Canon hair dryer again.....

Assuming the rumor is true, I am hoping somethings that were on board the 5D translate over. Things like the installation of Picture Syles such as the Technicolor Cinestyle picture style.. To me, that is something that helps a lot.

Then again, if this camera comes out with 15 stops of dynamic range, maybe Picture styles won't be as important.

Lets see, November 3, 2011- Sony VG-20 will be shipping at $ 1599 for the body only, Scarlet will be taking orders, Canon will announce something fantastic and new.

With all this building, I am guessing there are going to be more solid leaks coming ....
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Old September 21st, 2011, 11:55 AM   #117
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Chris, I'm right there with you. Very close to ordering a VG20, but with twin announce dates a month and a half away, I have to wait (and boy will that wait be tough).

I loves me T2i, but she is getting a little long in the tooth... not that I'll sell her - we've been through too much.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 01:46 PM   #118
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Maybe Canon buys RED or they have formed a partnership for low-end and high-end. One side of my brain says NO, impossible. The other part says HELL YEAH, Canon has enough money to do that.

I also think RED can never compete in the consumer/prosumer market and Canon will have a very hard time to compete in the high-end segment (and so far has shown no interest at all). So a strategic partnership where Canon will produce Scarlet wouldn't be that bad for both of them. If Canon would also start using RED CODE and Scarlet would feature Canon's 50Mbps 4:2:2 1080p as a codec option....

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I never expected Go Pro to buy Cineform either.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 02:06 PM   #119
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Sorry Floris, but this is definitely *not* going to happen -- guaranteed. Canon may have enough money to buy, but RED will never sell. Also, RED has said continuously that Scarlet is a pro item and that they are a strictly pro-oriented manufacturer. They simply choose not to pursue the consumer market space, which is a race to the bottom. Nor will they license RedCode out to any of the other major camera makers.

And Canon is already in the high-end digital cinema market, with their line of PL-mount D-Cinema lenses, so yes, their interest is already there. So the side of your brain that says "impossible" is indeed the correct one. ;-)
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Old September 21st, 2011, 02:38 PM   #120
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

I'm really looking forward to Nov 3rd now that RED is going head-to-head with Canon. If the Nov 3 just turns out to be another XH-L1 refresh with XF305 features added in, this is going to be lopsided.
  • Depth of field:
    Canon: forces every shot to have deep depth of field thanks to 1/3" chips.
    RED: Allows the cinematographer to use thinner depth of field, which is a massive design flaw.
    Verdict? A clear win by Canon.
  • Color artifacts:
    Canon: lots, thanks to its 3-chip prism!
    RED: none.
    Verdict? *BOOM* head-shot, RED goes down.
  • Resolution:
    Canon: 1080p
    RED: 3k.
    Verdict? 1080 is more than 3, people! Another win for Canon.
  • Data rate:
    Canon: 50 Mbps
    RED: 0.2 Gbps
    Verdict? 0.2 is so tiny, they get crushed. Canon wins again.

I could go on, but it's already pretty obvious that when it comes to Hollywood, RED is way out of their league. Canon is going to take it all.
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