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Old September 21st, 2011, 02:53 PM   #121
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

So far the talk from RED has been about the Scarlet on the 3rd Nov, which unless they're going to do a complete about face in their product range is a 2/3" camera.. They may have done a few changes to their last announced specs, but to date this seems to be a 3k camera with a 8 x fixed zoom lens.

The RED Super 35 sensor cameras are in the Epic range, with the former Scarlet Super 35 camera being the Epic-S.

Of course all this could change, but it has been RED's road map for a while now.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 03:38 PM   #122
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
Sorry Floris, but this is definitely *not* going to happen -- guaranteed. Canon may have enough money to buy, but RED will never sell.
No, I agree, no sale - but a strategic partnership would be a different matter and might be advantageous to both parties. With something like Red fundamentally concentrating on the higher end and Canon the FS100/AF100 market. Maybe the Red Scarlet will actually turn out to be the Canon Scarlet......?

Thinking back, it did seem a little odd that Jim was referring to the Canon announcement as if he knew what was going on, and also that both companies were choosing the same day for announcements. Of course, if the announcements were linked.......?

And some people have queried the Canon announcements, what's meant by "historic global announcement"? And "The Story Begins". Looking at the link from Simon Woods post, we have Jim Jannard saying "There are some monumental changes coming... " and "everything changes"

The speculation has been that they were references to new cameras, period. But it's a bit strong language, isn't it.....? But if it was new cameras AND a Red/Canon tie-up, it may really be a historic announcement for the industry.

Has anybody seen anything that categorically rules out such speculation?
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Old September 21st, 2011, 04:13 PM   #123
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
The RED Super 35 sensor cameras are in the Epic range, with the former Scarlet Super 35 camera being the Epic-S.

Of course all this could change, but it has been RED's road map for a while now.
No, it hasn't. A couple of weeks ago, Jim Jannard announced a new roadmap, and the Epic-S wasn't on it. When pressed about it, he replied, "The camera you want is later this year." Anyone interested in the Epic-S would probably want S35. But as far as I can tell, Scarlet (singular) is the only remaining Red camera that will be released this year. Also, his statements "What seemed like a good idea 3 years ago might seem completely wrong today" and more recently "Many times we announce a product, then realize that what seemed like a good idea... wasn't as good as we thought. Particularly when it doesn't measure up to 'our new and better idea'. That = change." seem to be aimed at 2/3-inch Scarlet, which was announced 3 years ago. One could conclude that Scarlet was now S35, with the Scarlet badge denoting a camera with a nonupgradable sensor. But it's anyone's guess.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 04:35 PM   #124
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by David Heath View Post
Has anybody seen anything that categorically rules out such speculation?
You may be onto something. Jim Jannard's post did seem to be carefully -- and in spots vaguely -- worded. The more conventional interpretation is that both Canon and Red would announce cameras on November 3 and that he thought Scarlet would be superior in every respect. But what he said was, "RED announces the new Scarlet. Canon announces 'something really important to Hollywood'. Everyone wins" (emphasis mine), which implies that it may not be be a head-to-head competition and doesn't say Canon is releasing a camera, and "You get to compare RED's latest directly with the newest from one of the 'big dogs' in the industry," which doesn't actually say we'll get to compare cameras.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 04:45 PM   #125
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by David Heath View Post
Has anybody seen anything that categorically rules out such speculation?
Not a categorical denial per se, but it's pretty obvious from reduser posts that Jim and Jarred don't see this as any kind of cooperation with Canon. For example:

"Head to head"
SCARLET....

"Canon announces... we announce. The best one wins."
SCARLET....

"We like to bring Bazookas to knife fights."
SCARLET....
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Old September 21st, 2011, 05:14 PM   #126
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

If scarlet is announced and the official price is under 6k (who knows how much it will be...) I will probably sell off all my DSLR equipment and move platforms. Then again, it depends on what lens they stick on it (Ive read an 8x zoom, but I like to see how long the lens is in mm equivalent...)

I stopped paying attention to 'supposed' price point releases about it a while ago - I guess I am going to keep on shooting merrily until/if/when something in this regard is announced. Whatever player makes the most significant offering, I will most likely buy around December.

All I want is small form factor, good codec, and 1080/60p. The rest is justifiable depending on price.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 05:24 PM   #127
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by Daniel Browning View Post
Not a categorical denial per se, but it's pretty obvious from reduser posts that Jim and Jarred don't see this as any kind of cooperation with Canon. For example:

"Head to head"
SCARLET....
OK..... now maybe I'm reading way, way too much into this, but you could see all those quotes (and thanks for them!) as cryptic and capable of being taken two ways.

"Head to head" for instance may be taken as meaning "face to face" (as most people are taking it) which implies competitiveness. But it could be taken as "putting our heads together", and imply co-operation. Visually, you could think of two heads facing each other (competitively) or standing side by side (co-operatively).
Quote:
"Canon announces... we announce. The best one wins."
SCARLET....
Likeise, that's being taken as "Canon announces their product, then we announce our (different) one, and ours is better than Canons".

But what if the meaning was "Canon announce a product, we announce how pleased we are to be in collaboration, and our joint product is better than anyone elses"?
Quote:
"We like to bring Bazookas to knife fights."
SCARLET....
Again - being taken as the Red bazooka versus the Canon knife.

But could he be referring to a fight between the bazooka wielded by Canon/Red, and the mere knives of Panasonic/Sony?

Heck, I wouldn't put any money on this, but I don't see those as categoric denials. Whatever the truth, they're certainly generating an awful lot of interest!
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Old September 21st, 2011, 07:57 PM   #128
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Watch it not be a camera at all. :)

I don't know. It just seems to me that RED and Canon have completely different customers.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 10:06 PM   #129
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

The price of a 5Dm2 body just dropped below $2000- here in Canada.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 11:12 PM   #130
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

And rebates for US buyers September 25 and running until October 29, 2011.

Yet another sign Canon's ready for a big new camera roll out.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 11:43 PM   #131
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Because Canon isn't Red and because this camera is in the rumor mil for over a year, in my opinion "historic" means 4K. Everything less would be a turn off.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 01:54 AM   #132
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Browning View Post
Not a categorical denial per se, but it's pretty obvious from reduser posts that Jim and Jarred don't see this as any kind of cooperation with Canon. For example:

"Head to head"
SCARLET....

"Canon announces... we announce. The best one wins."
SCARLET....

"We like to bring Bazookas to knife fights."
SCARLET....
FWIW, I completely agree w/ Daniel. It's quite a stretch read what Red has recently posted and conclude that they are partnering-up w/ Canon.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 02:13 AM   #133
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Originally Posted by Lawrence Bansbach View Post
You may be onto something. Jim Jannard's post did seem to be carefully -- and in spots vaguely -- worded. The more conventional interpretation is that both Canon and Red would announce cameras on November 3 and that he thought Scarlet would be superior in every respect. But what he said was, "RED announces the new Scarlet. Canon announces 'something really important to Hollywood'. Everyone wins" (.
That doesn't mean that it's a Super 35 sensor Scarlet, You could have the 2/3" Scarlet, using RAW being considered superior in every respect to a 1080p Canon with a Super 35 sensor. For many productions the 2/3" sensor would be the better tool to use and there's no reason why they couldn't have a 4k sensor on such a camera. It's still a new camera in the market, even if it doesn't appear so after numerous threads on REDUser ,

RED loves the speculation as part of their marketing. I'm sure whatever happens some people will be happy while others will be disappointed.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 02:40 AM   #134
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

RED seem to have used Nov 3rd as there target for Scarlet to go head to head with canon. OR is it an alternative to Canon.

Personally I think RED might make a sensor that covers 16mm film lenses and 2/3 lenses and Canon go full frame. That could be a tough decision for many.

Does anyone care if its 4k though? I mean what would the public use it for isn't it overkill and the pro side is already covered so to me 4k is more a gimmic.

It would be nice and why not have 4.2.2 10 bit out and record at various bit rates up to 220mbps as well as ND filters and useful tools. All could be done now especially as much of the expense in the past has been the lens. I think its about time a camera similar to the EX1 had a sensor that gave more control over dof and recorded at a higher bitrate for about or really should be less than EX1 pricing. especially now Jim Jannard will be hitting the sweet spot and market protectionism could be about to go out of the window for older manufacturers.

Fingers crossed.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 03:07 AM   #135
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Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

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Does anyone care if its 4k though? I mean what would the public use it for isn't it overkill and the pro side is already covered so to me 4k is more a gimmic.
Apart from anything else, it's great news for their marketing. If it's something priced head to head with the FS100/AF100, it becomes not why should you go for 4k - but why shouldn't you?

I'd hope for the possibility of recording to 50Mbs XDCAM422 at 1080p, and/or 4k to something capable of RAW.

And that's where a liasion with Red would make great sense in terms of a collaborative camera - lever the best parts of both organisations. It would also give Red access to such as Canons dealership and support network - something it may not have so badly needed when their product was high price/low volume, but more neccessary if we are going to see something lower priced/higher volume. To Peter Moretti I'd say that I don't consider Daniels quotes as evidence in themselves of a liasion happening - but I don't neccessarily think they're evidence that it won't, for the reasons given.

I also suspect there will be a big push soon towards 4k screens. Partly just as the next new thing, partly because screens are ceasing to be just a device to watch TV on, but finding a lot more uses in the commercial world for advertising, information display etc, where big screens and/or higher than 1080 resolutions are far more important than in the home. In which case, a move to 4k cameras would become part and parcel of a much wider move.
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