C300 Discussion - Page 5 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems

Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 3rd, 2011, 07:43 PM   #61
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 388
Re: C300 Discussion

I want to see some footage from it before I make any judgements.

I recommend everyone else do the same.
Justin Molush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 07:45 PM   #62
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pepper Pike OH
Posts: 49
Re: C300 Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Marriage View Post
Canon could have really pulled out an ace here but I'd call this a 7 of Clubs.
LOL That is right on the mark.
__________________
www.cameralogictv.com
John Cummings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 07:45 PM   #63
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,100
Re: C300 Discussion

I wish Canon had seen this as an opportunity to one-up the F3 by recording 10bit internally. Even to MPEG2 50mbit, if it had to be.

That alone would justify the price premium.
__________________
My Work: nateweaver.net
Nate Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 07:47 PM   #64
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,100
Re: C300 Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Molush View Post
I want to see some footage from it before I make any judgements.

I recommend everyone else do the same.
I'm sure it's beautiful, and the camera will be able to make amazing images.

But some of the shortcomings are known quantities.
__________________
My Work: nateweaver.net
Nate Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 07:50 PM   #65
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 469
Re: C300 Discussion

You can watch Vincent Laforet's short film 'Mobius' shot on the C300 here:


Quite frankly, the image looks superb. And seems to handle what must have been a very contrasty daylight extremely well.

The $20k price tag is genuinely surprising (and disappointing) though. I wonder what the lenses will come in at?
Mark Kenfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 07:54 PM   #66
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sitka Alaska
Posts: 470
Re: C300 Discussion

Hyped as a dream, but delivered as a nightmare. I'm walking toward the ocean......
David Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 08:03 PM   #67
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 949
Re: C300 Discussion

Canon has revealed the identity of the "second shooter":

Canon Global : News | News Releases
Daniel Browning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 08:04 PM   #68
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ocean View Hawaii
Posts: 88
further to David Heath on page one of this topic

i have been wondering if re arranging these color wells into a super pixel that reads out at the 1920 x 1080 is possible on my 5D, which seems to have a lot more pixels in the stills than the video. i wrote magic lantern last night and suggested it as a possible hack.

i don't know a lot about this stuff and could as usual be very wrong. appreciate any thoughts. it might seem off topic but it might be this is whats behind this c300.

aloha
tito
Tito Haggardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 08:05 PM   #69
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
Re: C300 Discussion

I fully expect the quality of the pictures to be very good - at the price they had better be!

But for that price I'd expect more. Not just great images when correctly exposed and colour balanced, but with flexibility, the ability to grade etc. That really means RAW, or S-log at the very least, and they need high bitdepths to be effective. And given it's a 4k chip, at this price I'd expect to be able to get the 4k resolution for recording.

Let's see what Red have to offer......
David Heath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 08:08 PM   #70
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,100
Re: C300 Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Heath View Post
at this price I'd expect to be able to get the 4k resolution for recording.

Let's see what Red have to offer......
It will be superior on paper, flawed in execution, and 9 months late.
__________________
My Work: nateweaver.net
Nate Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 08:17 PM   #71
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,554
Re: C300 Discussion

WOW!!!

I totally expected to be annoyed by all the fanboys, but it seems almost everyone is extremely disappointed in the C300. Canon's marketing department should be fired for creating all this hype when there is nothing special about the camera. At the least, they should have shown a mockup of the body so people would have had some sense of where they were going. This camera is more like a Red Epic in that it requires a lot of accessories for decent ergonomics; thus, the total package costs far more than just the body.

Their log gamma is not any better than the F3 with Hyper/Cine-gamma because they are limited to how much DR can be squeezed into an 8 bit codec (appx. 11-12 stops).

I also think that Canon really messed up with the price and peoples' desire to use their EF lenses. If people have been accustomed to the low quality and low price of DSLRs, then why would they want to spend over 8 times as much (ie. 7D) just to use EF lenses? Most of these people are very price conscious; so, the $16k seems astronomical to the $1800 of a 7D.
Steve Kalle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 08:17 PM   #72
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 256
Re: C300 Discussion

Canon's specs here:

Canon U.S.A. : Professional Imaging Products : EOS C300 PL
Steve Kimmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 08:22 PM   #73
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: germany, spain
Posts: 66
Re: C300 Discussion

It's hard to tell from this Laforet short, but taking into account how Vimeo compresses stuff, looks like the F3 with S-Log handles better the highlights and has more latitude than the C300. That is specially evident in some of the high contrast scenes in the C300 movie, where there's plenty of noise in the shadows.

That's not surprising considering the C300 appears to be 8bit@50Mbps while the F3 outputs uncompressed RGB at 10 bit through dual link.


At $20k I fail to see how this new Canon C300 can compete with the F3.
Henry Coll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 08:28 PM   #74
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
Re: further to David Heath on page one of this topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito Haggardt View Post
i have been wondering if re arranging these color wells into a super pixel that reads out at the 1920 x 1080 is possible on my 5D, which seems to have a lot more pixels in the stills than the video. i wrote magic lantern last night and suggested it as a possible hack.

i don't know a lot about this stuff and could as usual be very wrong. appreciate any thoughts. it might seem off topic but it might be this is whats behind this c300.
Sorry - but no. It's the fact that the sensor dimensions are exactly 2x 1920x1080 that makes it possible to read it simply and effectively the way they do in the C300. In the cases of DSLRs, the numbers don't work so well - they aren't an exact multiple of 1920x1080. I wrote about such in this topic - Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
Quote:
It may not be necessary to do a full deBayer/downconvert (difficult to do well) *IF* the number of photosites are chosen carefully - and that means being in an exact multiple of 1920x1080. The issues with pevious DSLRs and the AF100 is that this hasn't been the case in those cameras - the sensors were designed just with stills in mind, and compromises made for video.

Hence optimum numbers would be 3840x2160 (2x), 5760x3240 (3x) etc. Total photosite numbers would then be 4x, 9x, 16x etc greater than 1920x1080. In other words - 8 megapixel, 18 megapixel, 32 megapixel etc. Now, what is this new Canon - hmmm, 18 megapixel.......?? Let's see if it's actually 5760x3240.

The principle is that you take a square of photosites (2x2, 3x3, 4x4 etc) and just extract the red, green blue values straight from the corresponding photosites. Each case gives full 1080p resolution with relatively simple processing..

Typical for a stills sensor might be to do it similarly to how the C300 does it, but need to miss blocks out, so only read the photosites below in bold, deriving one "output pixel" from each block of 16:

G R G R
B G B G

That would be OK if the sensor dimensions were 7680x4320 (4x 1920x1080) - but still sensors are less than that. Hence why the resolution tends to be more like 1200 horizontally - the sensor dimensions are more typically likely to be 4800 horizontally. This then gets scaled up to 1920x1080 for recording. It's easier to scale up than scale down.
David Heath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2011, 08:39 PM   #75
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 786
Re: C300 Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Weaver View Post
It will be superior on paper, flawed in execution, and 9 months late.
They reckon it will ship on December 1st, for US$9,750.
David Knaggs is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:29 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network