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For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


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Old November 6th, 2011, 10:28 AM   #16
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen View Post
As I've stated in another thread, where does everybody get this $10,000 price point from? Please show me this wundercam that has all the features of the C300 for 10 grand.
It's undoubtedly a question of sales volume. If the 7D sold in a volume similar to prosumer camcorders it would likely be a least double the price.
But the tricky part of pricing is renters vs. buyers. Over some price ($8-$10K?) the market becomes mostly renters. I think that's the primary disappointment here. For people being employed to shoot for others each week it may not make much difference. But DSLR video made a lot of people much better through owning the equipment and frequent use. The price of the C300 doesn't provide that for most people. Hence the disappointment.
The pre announcement expectation that an improved video version of the 7D wouldn't be more than 10x the price of DSLR wasn't unreasonable.
In hindsight, considering Canon's difficulty in meeting XF demand, it's understandable that they didn't want a high volume prosumer first C series product.
If they've made a poor man's Alexa they will do well. If it's a direct F3 competitor they made a strange pricing choice. Canon obviously thinks they have better basic IQ than the F3.
I guess were left with the 1DX and the future Cinema DSLR as Canon's answer to the AF100/FS100. That's disappointing for most people. I've been using the 5DII since the end of 2008. That's a heck of a long wait to get rid of the compromises.
And I'm a still photographer too. I don't know why more video only guys haven't moved to the AF100 or the FS100. I find the high tolerance for the quirks of for DSLR video surprising. As well as before that 35mm lens adapter frankenrigs.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 11:23 AM   #17
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

o.k., here is my frustration, and this is totally my opinion. Also I just want to preface this by saying that we are in some kind of golden age of unbelievable camera tech for historically low prices. That being said...

I think with the 5D/7D (and all the little brothers) there was a perception that Canon was really changing the game with an amazing (flawed. but amazing) camera for the little guy.

Both the FS100 and AF100 are sometimes referred to as "cripple cams" because the perception is Sony and Panny made design choices (micro 4/3 sensor, no SDI out, single card slot, etc) that limited the cams in some way to protect their higher end offerings (F3) or just didn't have the sensor tech (micro 4/3 on the panny) ready in time for S35.

The cry for the canon products has always seemed to me to be "just fix the aliasing/moire and rolling shutter and we are happy". When Canon teased its "big announcement" I think all the DSLR shooters were thinking "God, finally - it's been like three years, finally they get it" and the expectation was they would have something in the FS100/AF100 price range. When the rumors started flying i think the hope was that they would have two products, one in the F3 price bracket and one in the FS100 price bracket.

In my opinion the frustration is coming from the people thinking "We thought Canon had our back but now it's obvious they don't understand us at all and the 5D was just a happy accident." The very group shooting with DSLRs because of their low cost has been the very group ignored by Canon when they finally decide to "get serious".

In Occupy Wall Street terms; The 99% got them to Hollywood, and once there they made a camera for the 1%. Now they have to deal with the howls of protest from the unwashed masses.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 11:58 AM   #18
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

Just a reminder that we do not allow link to "camera rumor" sites, nor any quotes.

The "Info" in DV Info Net stands for Information. In other words, the opposite of rumors.

Thanks for understanding.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 12:12 PM   #19
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burk Webb View Post
When Canon teased its "big announcement" I think all the DSLR shooters were thinking "God, finally - it's been like three years, finally they get it" and the expectation was they would have something in the FS100/AF100 price range.
Canon announced 4K resolution PL-mount lenses at NAB, and then they announced a
new service department and a 9,000 sq. ft. office right in the middle of Hollywood. The
indicators of what was coming were pretty easy to read, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burk Webb View Post
When the rumors started flying i think the hope was that they would have two products, one in the F3 price bracket and one in the FS100 price bracket.
And that's is exactly why I don't allow "camera rumor" links or quotes on this site, because
it leads to expectations like this that are nowhere close to what was actually happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burk Webb View Post
In my opinion the frustration is coming from the people thinking "We thought Canon had our back but now it's obvious they don't understand us at all and the 5D was just a happy accident." The very group shooting with DSLRs because of their low cost has been the very group ignored by Canon when they finally decide to "get serious".
It is true that the 5D Mk. II was a happy accident, however, it is a serious mistake to think
of the big Hollywood launch and the Cinema EOS line as anything other than what it is --
Canon's branching move into Hollywood. It doesn't mean that the low-cost D-SLR's are over
and it doesn't mean that Canon isn't working on other non-Hollywood stuff. Some people are
making the mistake of living in the superlative, as if the fact that the Hollywood announcement
not applying to them means that nothing further from Canon ever will.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 07:23 PM   #20
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

Looks like sales of the C300 are off a good start ahead of delivery. UK based CVP Group reported on Twitter 30 pre-orders in less than 24hrs. Maybe the price is right then...

https://twitter.com/#!/CVPgroup
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Old November 7th, 2011, 01:24 AM   #21
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

Mind you they are advertising it as 10 bit out

Canon Cinema EOS C300 EF (C-300, 300C, EOS) super 35mm digital cinematography camcorder with EF lens mount
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Old November 7th, 2011, 01:56 AM   #22
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

That's one dealer, to date everywhere else has been saying 8 bit.

The camera does have a number of advantages over the opposition, which would be of interest to people and rental companies. A key ones being its small size, it's not power hungry and the recoding media isn't expensive. First reports are that it's different, but does handhold well - I'd assume the light weight could be helping with this particular form factor. Regardless of the 8 bit, the camera does produce good images.

There's now a web site:

Canon Cinema EOS

Looking through the spec sheet there appears to be features like waveform and vectorscope available.However, I haven't found any details yet, although these features should be of assistance for setting up the camera and setting exposure without the need of a separate waveform monitor. With other features, these could start making sense of the higher price.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; November 7th, 2011 at 03:32 AM.
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Old November 7th, 2011, 06:40 AM   #23
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

I'm not surprised it has a built-in waveform and vectorscope - the XF300 has them as well. It seems like there's a lot of the XF series in this camera.
And remember, the XF300 begat the cheaper XF100. This ain't over yet, guys.
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Old November 7th, 2011, 07:23 AM   #24
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

I do get the impression that professional pressure is currently to make a 4k camera rather than a lower cost version. However that's not say they won't make a cheaper camera, although Canon may rely on the stills photography division for a cheaper large sensor video camera, given that there appears to be synergy with stills photographers wanting to shoot video.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 10:18 AM   #25
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
...... Canon may rely on the stills photography division for a cheaper large sensor video camera, given that there appears to be synergy with stills photographers wanting to shoot video.
There seem to be very few still photographers wanting to shoot cumbersome DSLR-type video. Photojournalists who also shoot video for the web mostly use easy camcorders, it seems. True ENG cameramen use a real ENG camera.
DSLR video shooters seem to have formed their own classification from the strong need/desire for the budget cine look. And a tolerance for cumbersome equipment and limitations if the image can be great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen View Post
And remember, the XF300 begat the cheaper XF100. This ain't over yet, guys.
It's likely over for 2012. Beyond that it doesn't matter.
I feel it's either stay with DSLR, or possibly the AF100 will be upgraded.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 10:55 AM   #26
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Re: EOS 300 price bummer

I'd prefer if they used something based on the CP16 or Aaton layout, the former was the basis of the Kinetta camera, rather than DSLR. However, the cheapness that a larger stills market allows appear to be a driving force, rather than the ergonomics.

The best ENG camcorders for handholding were the BVW 200/300/400 series. The down side being they were rather long when you had a battery on the rear.
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