EOS 300 price bummer
 

unless after the dust settles there is real reason to get this camera and I mean something worth the bucks the price will drive me to sony fs100 0r the f3.

every camera seems fantastic during the launch, so did fcpx and aint that sad.

ps imho I think sony fs100 sales will have a small spike because of people like me who waiting to see this camera. to early to tell for sure but for 20k this camera better do some magic considering consumer cams aint that much worst than the big boys, in perspective of course...

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

You know, I would have bet almost anything that the FS100 would not have walked away from today still holding the crown of best bang of the buck. (will give more credit to Scarlet X when it ships en masse). But there ya go... go buy an FS100 without regret!

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

Hey Dylan you got me looking at the Scarlet, kind of an odd looker, but I'll start checking it out.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

Before you get too excited, be aware that there's likely a massive waiting list for Scarlet, and Red isn't known for their ability to produce 10,000 cameras a month. If you need a camera in 2012, you'll probably want a 2nd option.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

And I am thinking that with a little work, the Sony VG20H can be made to work on the lower budget side.



Trees in wind: Looking for Motion Artifacts: Sony Nex VG 20- Testing for motion artifacts - YouTube

Noise Test I did: Testing of Noise In Low Light Sony Nex-VG20 H - YouTube


It came today: Unboxing:

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

It's certainly the start of the scale. A low budget/low noise 8 bit camera in this sea of high priced 8 bit models is very attractive... Suffice it to say, I'm very interested in your testing of this camera - can it/should it at least displace Canon currently available DSLRS, which seem to be the defacto starting point in digital cinema.

Or is it simply a really nice camcorder for the family?

Either way, FS100/AF100 owners breathed a sigh of relief on the Canon pricing... But as for RED? Now that might be a different thing all together. If they can deliver, it's likely a true game changer.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

The Sony has Dolby 5.1, I guess with an adapter you can add any canon lens so something like a f1.4 on this may produce stunning quality. I have a 600d and a XHA1 but I may sell the XHA1 and get the Sony instead. The RED looks great but you would need quite a lot of extras to get a setup which would be pratical.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

The FS100/AF100 are in a completely different price bracket from Scarlet. No one is shooting a Scarlet for less than $15,000, more realisticaly, $20,000. The FS100 delivers 90% of what a Scarlet does for 1/3rd the price. It should be a no brainer for anyone with less than $10-$15,000. The F3 owners however...
Anyway, I love both cameras, just pointing out the fairly wide range between them.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

When I went to bed last night after a day of fooling with the VG20, I had dreams of Trammel Hudson cracking the VG2 and making work like the the FS 100... Trammel, are you out there ??

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

Before the Scarlet-X announcement I would say the market value of this C300 would be in the $ 10 000 to $ 12 000. I mean realistic value compared to the superior F3. Now after the Scarlet-X announcement anything beyond $ 8000 would be a joke. The Scarlet-X announcement will put a lot of pressure on the Sony and now Canon. I see a Sony F3 shipping with the slog as standard for between $ 10 000 and $ 12 000. Only one reason would help maintain the prices of the F3 is the Scarlet-X being victim of its success and red having delivery issues. If else why you would buy the F3 or even less C300 for more than a 4k raw camera.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

Funny you say $10-$12,000... Myself and a few other professionals nailed the value break point (based on specs and compared to other cameras) at about $12,500. We were pretty shocked, and we've all eaten some big dollar sandwiches over the years. Then again... MSRP $16,000 may street for $12,995 eventually.

Of course, to compare it to the Scarlet X, Red actually has to deliver cameras, which (and I say this sadly having bought one yesterday) historically they have issues with. Canon delivers like a stork on meth. So no real head to head until they are both on the street.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

Gaaaaaa!

Well, I've pondered the c300 and have come to the conclusion that this would be an awesome camera if it cost $6000 bucks. It's everything I want right now in a cam but the damn price!

It is a "price bummer" indeed....

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

I believe 20K is MSRP, 16K will be the street price

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

As I've stated in another thread, where does everybody get this $10,000 price point from? Please show me this wundercam that has all the features of the C300 for 10 grand. The Scarlet? Sure, if you don't mind not seeing what you're shooting and no batteries. At $10,000, the Scarlet is a very pretty paperweight. A real shooting package for the Scarlet starts at $14K. And at $14K, the Scarlet is a damn good bargain. (If only I could make a business case for it -sigh.)

If any of you expected a $10,000 Canon camera, well that's strictly based upon your own wishful thinking. But don't deride Canon for building this camera at the current price point. Until someone builds a Super 35 sensor, broadcast codec, EF and/or PL lens mount, HD/SDI & HDMI-out, interchangeable lens digital cinema camera for $10,000, we can assume it cannot be done profitably - yet. The fact is, the C300 is near the same price point as its two competitors, the F3 and Scarlet.

A cheaper option - get an AF100/FS100, add an external recorder that can do 100mbps, 4:2:2 - and voila! you have a cheap C300. And you can do it for under $10K.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

In my mind it is between the Sony fs100 and f3. For the money difference, is the picture quality that much better? Is it even better?

So if someone was a Sony salesman trying to up sell me on the f3 what would he say...s-log, I have read about it but want to know if it makes a finished difference that would make me glad I spent the money.

I want the option of shooting for a feature film, but it will more than likely only go to dvd. I also want longer record times...longer than the 11 or so minutes you get with the 7d.

By the way the 7d footage I shoot is routinely projected onto a 20' x 30' screen and looks perfect.

Some smart guy feedback would be nice...thanks

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

It's undoubtedly a question of sales volume. If the 7D sold in a volume similar to prosumer camcorders it would likely be a least double the price.
But the tricky part of pricing is renters vs. buyers. Over some price ($8-$10K?) the market becomes mostly renters. I think that's the primary disappointment here. For people being employed to shoot for others each week it may not make much difference. But DSLR video made a lot of people much better through owning the equipment and frequent use. The price of the C300 doesn't provide that for most people. Hence the disappointment.
The pre announcement expectation that an improved video version of the 7D wouldn't be more than 10x the price of DSLR wasn't unreasonable.
In hindsight, considering Canon's difficulty in meeting XF demand, it's understandable that they didn't want a high volume prosumer first C series product.
If they've made a poor man's Alexa they will do well. If it's a direct F3 competitor they made a strange pricing choice. Canon obviously thinks they have better basic IQ than the F3.
I guess were left with the 1DX and the future Cinema DSLR as Canon's answer to the AF100/FS100. That's disappointing for most people. I've been using the 5DII since the end of 2008. That's a heck of a long wait to get rid of the compromises.
And I'm a still photographer too. I don't know why more video only guys haven't moved to the AF100 or the FS100. I find the high tolerance for the quirks of for DSLR video surprising. As well as before that 35mm lens adapter frankenrigs.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

o.k., here is my frustration, and this is totally my opinion. Also I just want to preface this by saying that we are in some kind of golden age of unbelievable camera tech for historically low prices. That being said...

I think with the 5D/7D (and all the little brothers) there was a perception that Canon was really changing the game with an amazing (flawed. but amazing) camera for the little guy.

Both the FS100 and AF100 are sometimes referred to as "cripple cams" because the perception is Sony and Panny made design choices (micro 4/3 sensor, no SDI out, single card slot, etc) that limited the cams in some way to protect their higher end offerings (F3) or just didn't have the sensor tech (micro 4/3 on the panny) ready in time for S35.

The cry for the canon products has always seemed to me to be "just fix the aliasing/moire and rolling shutter and we are happy". When Canon teased its "big announcement" I think all the DSLR shooters were thinking "God, finally - it's been like three years, finally they get it" and the expectation was they would have something in the FS100/AF100 price range. When the rumors started flying i think the hope was that they would have two products, one in the F3 price bracket and one in the FS100 price bracket.

In my opinion the frustration is coming from the people thinking "We thought Canon had our back but now it's obvious they don't understand us at all and the 5D was just a happy accident." The very group shooting with DSLRs because of their low cost has been the very group ignored by Canon when they finally decide to "get serious".

In Occupy Wall Street terms; The 99% got them to Hollywood, and once there they made a camera for the 1%. Now they have to deal with the howls of protest from the unwashed masses.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

Just a reminder that we do not allow link to "camera rumor" sites, nor any quotes.

The "Info" in DV Info Net stands for Information. In other words, the opposite of rumors.

Thanks for understanding.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

Canon announced 4K resolution PL-mount lenses at NAB, and then they announced a
new service department and a 9,000 sq. ft. office right in the middle of Hollywood. The
indicators of what was coming were pretty easy to read, in my opinion.

And that's is exactly why I don't allow "camera rumor" links or quotes on this site, because
it leads to expectations like this that are nowhere close to what was actually happening.

It is true that the 5D Mk. II was a happy accident, however, it is a serious mistake to think
of the big Hollywood launch and the Cinema EOS line as anything other than what it is --
Canon's branching move into Hollywood. It doesn't mean that the low-cost D-SLR's are over
and it doesn't mean that Canon isn't working on other non-Hollywood stuff. Some people are
making the mistake of living in the superlative, as if the fact that the Hollywood announcement
not applying to them means that nothing further from Canon ever will.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

Looks like sales of the C300 are off a good start ahead of delivery. UK based CVP Group reported on Twitter 30 pre-orders in less than 24hrs. Maybe the price is right then...

https://twitter.com/#!/CVPgroup

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

Mind you they are advertising it as 10 bit out

Canon Cinema EOS C300 EF (C-300, 300C, EOS) super 35mm digital cinematography camcorder with EF lens mount

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

That's one dealer, to date everywhere else has been saying 8 bit.

The camera does have a number of advantages over the opposition, which would be of interest to people and rental companies. A key ones being its small size, it's not power hungry and the recoding media isn't expensive. First reports are that it's different, but does handhold well - I'd assume the light weight could be helping with this particular form factor. Regardless of the 8 bit, the camera does produce good images.

There's now a web site:

Canon Cinema EOS

Looking through the spec sheet there appears to be features like waveform and vectorscope available.However, I haven't found any details yet, although these features should be of assistance for setting up the camera and setting exposure without the need of a separate waveform monitor. With other features, these could start making sense of the higher price.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

I'm not surprised it has a built-in waveform and vectorscope - the XF300 has them as well. It seems like there's a lot of the XF series in this camera.
And remember, the XF300 begat the cheaper XF100. This ain't over yet, guys.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

I do get the impression that professional pressure is currently to make a 4k camera rather than a lower cost version. However that's not say they won't make a cheaper camera, although Canon may rely on the stills photography division for a cheaper large sensor video camera, given that there appears to be synergy with stills photographers wanting to shoot video.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

There seem to be very few still photographers wanting to shoot cumbersome DSLR-type video. Photojournalists who also shoot video for the web mostly use easy camcorders, it seems. True ENG cameramen use a real ENG camera.
DSLR video shooters seem to have formed their own classification from the strong need/desire for the budget cine look. And a tolerance for cumbersome equipment and limitations if the image can be great.

It's likely over for 2012. Beyond that it doesn't matter.
I feel it's either stay with DSLR, or possibly the AF100 will be upgraded.

Re: EOS 300 price bummer
 

I'd prefer if they used something based on the CP16 or Aaton layout, the former was the basis of the Kinetta camera, rather than DSLR. However, the cheapness that a larger stills market allows appear to be a driving force, rather than the ergonomics.

The best ENG camcorders for handholding were the BVW 200/300/400 series. The down side being they were rather long when you had a battery on the rear.