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Old November 5th, 2011, 07:17 PM   #16
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re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

I guess my amateur answer based on nothing but looking at the "film". Does this "look" like something I would see in the movie theatres - absolutely not (based on current "Hollywood" movies out there, movies I would pay admission to). Does this look like something I'd see on TV, definitely. What is this based on? Absolutely nothing regarding technicalities and the like, just "quality" wise nothing I would spend $10+ to see in the theatres, TV sure, just not on the big screen. Looks like very nice HD footage to be viewed on my 55" flat screen (impressive at that) but too "amateur" looking for the big screen. Just my 2 sense
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Old November 6th, 2011, 01:04 AM   #17
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re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

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Originally Posted by Jean Daniel Villiers View Post
Could you post some of your work please. Because I don't see one of the thing you are describing, perhaps if we see some of your work we might understand your point of view. I did not see one of your criticism in this short movie. In fact I was quite impressed by the DR of the camera. It was shot outdoor in very contrasty desert environment. I was only looking when the guy was in the car at the background through the window and I was telling myself if they have used tinted glass in the car because the highlight was still there, in a desert contrast lighting it is quite impressive.
Completely agree with this.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 02:35 AM   #18
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re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

Matt's perception of this looking like TV footage, rather than cinema footage, strikes a chord. With 8-bit 1080p, the C300 seems to be targeted at teleproduction rather than the big screen. Nothing the matter with that.

Keep in mind that this is the first camera targeting professional production in Hollywood from Canon. Targeting television first - which is less picky than cinema - makes a lot of sense. This gets their foot in the door. I expect that they'll move up the food chain later.

I should watch the movie Traffic again. The look of Mobius seems to have the same intent as the Mexico scenes in Traffic. For those who haven't seen that film in a while, it has three very different looks: Mexico, US suburbia, and the US streets. As I recall, Traffic (Mexico) has quite a bit of grain. I could see them considering adding grain but quickly dropping the idea. You don't show off a camera by adding noise in post. The rest of us can add all the grain that we want. :)
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Old November 6th, 2011, 03:33 AM   #19
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re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

I think the footage looks great, well shot and edited. Is this camera worth the 20K that is on the table at this time, I don't know?

There is so much gear out there at the moment that is great and Canon have added to the pile.

I'm so glad that I made a decision last year with a format to stick with and hope this see's me through for some time.

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Old November 6th, 2011, 11:26 AM   #20
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re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

My comment on my blog about the video looking video-ish comes from what appear to me to be over sharpened edges and textures. This might be from the camera or it could well be the online compression, it's impossible to tell. There are a few shots where the highlights are not handled all that well, but without seeing the true light conditions I'm not going to make a judgement on the cameras true performance. For me Mobius just does not have the "wow" factor I was expecting.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 01:36 PM   #21
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re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

Unfortunately, the only way to judge these films was to be there at the Paramount theater. As I said in the other thread, Canon had the films playing in 2 smaller screening areas on the 2 stages and they didn't look as good as they did in the theater. Both, the owner of our company (25+ years DP/operator SOC) and a fellow staff member (20+ years operator, local 600, USC instructor) were extremely impressed by the footage they viewed. Some of the previous posts were pointing out flaws that none of us saw in the screenings.

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Old November 6th, 2011, 02:05 PM   #22
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re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

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Originally Posted by Jim Martin View Post
Unfortunately, the only way to judge these films was to be there at the Paramount theater. As I said in the other thread, Canon had the films playing in 2 smaller screening areas on the 2 stages and they didn't look as good as they did in the theater. Both, the owner of our company (25+ years DP/operator SOC) and a fellow staff member (20+ years operator, local 600, USC instructor) were extremely impressed by the footage they viewed. Some of the previous posts were pointing out flaws that none of us saw in the screenings.

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I know its silly to ask (because there are so many variables), but it will come up eventually: how did the images stack up against movies shot on other digital cameras? By that I mean was the image comparable to movies shot with RED1, Epic, Alexa etc?

I'm sure this would have come up with DP's and projectionists who saw the movies at some point....
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Old November 6th, 2011, 02:31 PM   #23
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re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

OP edited to show the 1080 HQ Vimeo clip, also added the BTS clip.

Title changed from "C300 Laforet short film" to "C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet."
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Old November 6th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #24
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Re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

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Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
I know its silly to ask (because there are so many variables), but it will come up eventually: how did the images stack up against movies shot on other digital cameras? By that I mean was the image comparable to movies shot with RED1, Epic, Alexa etc?

I'm sure this would have come up with DP's and projectionists who saw the movies at some point....
I'd put it very close to the Alexa.....

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Old November 7th, 2011, 03:15 PM   #25
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Re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

Wish I could have been there Jim. Say hi to the gang for me!

I think the C300 and Scarlet are very different cameras that will fit into different sectors. Scarlet is heavy and power hungry, the workflow will be relatively slow (in comparison). The C300 looks like it's simple to use, the workflow will be quick and easy and it's small, light and low power. If your really shooting movies and shorts then Scarlet may be the better fit. If your shooting Docs or Corporates then the C300 might be the one for you. However there is fierce competition in this sector now from many corners.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 07:23 AM   #26
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Re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

Well, I've seen again Laforet's short several times -at the highest resolution you can download-, as well as other shorts made with the C300.
I still keep my original impression and remain fairly disappointed with the C300.

I put a lot of hope on whatever Canon was announcing and definitely wanted to like the camera/s, which I was ready to acquire, not bothered by its announced price tag. I think I'll get an F3 with a Gemini instead (and rent Alexas when needed).


Regardless what Web compression might do, there are some artifacts that are not produced by it, as you can see when also watching web-compressed stuff shot with other cameras, that look totally different.
Of course there are things you cannot judge with web-compressed footage, as noise and compression artifacts, but other technical aspects aren't masked by such compression.


What have I seen on Laforet and other C300 videos? Well, to me looks like the camera has a limited latitude, nasty highlights and all white clipping go to yellow, all of this is what it's giving it an undesirable video look. Those limitations are most evident with specular reflection, which happens on any polished and reflecting surface: metal, glass, rocks, but also in other smoother materials such as leaves, the road and with skin- specially if it's wet-, when light hits in a certain way.

While the C300 might be very sensitive and have lower noise in the shadows (though doesn't appear to be better than the Fs100/F3), I'm seeing a very limited latitude from middle grey to highlights and very nasty clipping. Look in Laforet's short every time there's a car on camera, how the desert rocks shine or the specular reflection on skin: 709 video-look.

You can try to hide all this things at the grading suite, but you'll be working with an 8bit signal with the C300. And it would be better if those things weren't there to start with.


Some months ago I saw in Amsterdam (IBC) what the F3+SLog can do with a proper uncompressed 444 10bit recorder like the Gemini. I was taking special attention to latitude and highlights, which to me is what distinguishes film from video. I have to say that it was stunning. There's not much from this combo out there yet, but you can see a bit of it here.




On a side note, I'd like comment that not jut because a camera is more sensitive, it means you don't need lights or don't have to light properly (and 'lighting' and 'illuminating' are two different things btw).

On the C300 videos, people are getting away with no lights or light very poorly and that makes footage look cheap and amateur.
On "Sword" you see interiors with nothing but practicals that not only look terrible, but all windows are blown out as they're 4 stops over key.
On Laforet's, when the hero is kidnapped for instance, you see shots into the car with: available light at midday, others shots later in the day and others at dusk with a pair of bold X-Y PARs with hardly any diffusion, throwing double shadows (!), ALL intercut together. That screams CHEAP film.

Please take the time to light properly!

Last edited by Henry Coll; November 9th, 2011 at 07:58 PM.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 06:07 PM   #27
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Re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Coll View Post
What have I seen on Laforet and other C300 videos? Well, to me looks like the camera has a limited latitude, nasty highlights and all white clipping go to yellow
There is a lengthy interview with Vincent Laforet at fxguide.com. One of the reasons why you are seeing yellow in the highlights on his film is because he used a Sahara Gold filter during the shoot. He admits that may have been a mistake on his part. He also addresses many of your other criticisms of the camera including the now endless discussion of 8 vs 10 bit and lack of raw.

It is a good listen to learn more about his first hand experience with the camera and his opinion of its many strengths and some weaknesses.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 07:43 PM   #28
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Re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

I had a feeling that the yellow highlights were an effect, rather than a camera artifact. On the Zacuto 2011 Shootout, the Canon DSLRs all clip through white, rather than through yellow. I'd be surprised if the C300 doesn't also pay attention to this aspect of proper imaging.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 09:20 PM   #29
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Re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

Thanks for the video Henry, Ah de grachten in Nederland!
I'm puzzled as to why you would be critisizing the blown highlights of the Laforet video shot in extremely high contrast desert light, then go on the post a video shot in drab flat light in the Netherlands. I think i could shoot that with my cell phone & get decent exposure!
I'm sure there will be other camera's coming from Canon, not to mention from all the other manufacturers. This is what Canon is offering this time round & i'm sure for many it will work very well. For others like yourself, maybe not.
I agree that not lighting a scene correctly is a bad idea, but i'm sure the idea of these videos is to show off what can be done with no lighting at all. Just think of what could be achieved with proper lighting!!
I'm excited about what's to come next! Hopefully it will be more in my price bracket.

Bryce.
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Old December 10th, 2011, 06:14 AM   #30
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Re: C300 Demo: Mobius by Vincent Laforet

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Originally Posted by Mark David Williams View Post
For me Mobious is the perfect film to showcase the camera Nice story that is enjoyable on repeat viewings. As for the footage mostly it did look like film and does it well. If this is straight out of the camera like I expect it to be as a demonstration then I want one. If it had of been around 6000 my order would be in I had already called the shop before the camera was out and told them to put me in the front of the queue. Some very lucky people who can afford this as a luxury item will be having a lovely early xmas present!

Not me though or any indy film makers I know.

Having said that I'd still give it a miss because of the 8 bit HDSDI I'd still like it as my fav toy though.
Hi Mark,


In the Netherlands you can order the Canon C300 for:
Euro 12,000
GBP 8,269
US dollars 15,000
All prices are exc.VAT

nivo-schweitzer.nl

Best wishes,

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