C300 for wildlife filmmaking? - Page 4 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems

Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 19th, 2011, 01:52 PM   #46
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon Lorenz View Post
Would you be able to read a newspaper at a greater distance with a large sensor camera...?
Without getting into specifics, it's a tradeoff between resolution of the glass and the size/cost of the glass. For a small sensor, you have small pixels, so you need very sharp glass to deliver the needed resolution. On a large sensor, the pixels are larger, so the glass itself doesn't have to be as accurate. However, the glass needs to be larger, heavier, and will be more expensive to create a lens with the same effective focal length and f-stop.

2/3-inch is probably the sweet spot. The pixels are medium sized, so the quality has to be good but not extreme. Also, long glass gets long, but not extreme. Still, just look at and price a sports broadcast lens to see what it takes to get both sharpness and length at decent speed for a 2/3" sensor. Similar glass for a 1/3" sensor will be cheaper, but won't offer the sharpness that a broadcast 2/3" setup can deliver.
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 19th, 2011, 03:41 PM   #47
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon Lorenz View Post
Would you be able to read a newspaper at a greater distance with a large sensor camera like the C300 has with 800 mm of lens power versus a 1/3" sensor like the XLH1 with the same lens power setting?
Theoretically, you'll be (much) better off with the 1/3" sensor. The limiting factor is most likely to be sensor and system resolution - hence the same 800mm will give greater magnification when used with smaller chips.

Practically, it's more complicated (isn't it always....?) and a lot depends on whether you're talking about lenses designed for the chip size, or adapting a 35mm lens for 1/3" via an adaptor.

Think of it this way, you can think of the sharpness of a lens in terms of total no of lines across the horizontal, or lines/mm measured at the sensor. So if a lens gives (say) 4000 lines across a sensor 20mm wide, it's the same as 200lines/mm. Use the same lens on a 1/3" camera, and if we guess the width is now 5mm (approx), the best resolution you'll get is 1000 lines total - which may not do justice to a 1920x1080 system.

A designed for 1/3" lens will likely have a better lines/mm figure - but far smaller coverage area. That's why if you're using a lens designed for large format, it may look soft if used with too small a sensor.
David Heath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2012, 07:01 PM   #48
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 20
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

I had a chat to Simon King (UK based wildlife film maker) at the London boat / outdoor / bicycle show last year. He had a EOS 5D set up, and said that he'd been using it in the field.

No idea what his experiences were, but he's got a website, and you might be able to find out more through that.

Simon King Wildlife Home Page
Graeme Sutherland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 04:04 PM   #49
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: McBride BC Canada
Posts: 98
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

After reading everything I could find about the C300 and watching some internet video reviews I decided to take the plunge and see if it would work for wildlife filming for me. Along with the C300 I ordered a Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS11 zoom lens, EF 2X 111 extender, Zacuto Lens Support and Studio Baseplate with 12" rods and a couple of SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s 600X 64 GB CFcards.

One of my main concerns I had before I ordered the camera was, would it fit in my day pack with the above lens combination. Fortunally the dealer had a demo model to check this out and it did though there was no excess. The pack I'm using is actually a camo hunting pack made by Badlands and is called the Super Day Pack. I've tried a lot of different packs over the years and this one is the best by far for my needs. It is quite compact dispite the many well thought out compartments for storing one's essentials. Also, I'm able to lash this pack on top of my large North Face Expedition Pack for 2 week filming trips into the mountains (total pack weight now 70 pounds ). In the main compartment I built a padded cradle for added protection and comfort. There is no issues with this setup whatsoever for packing my camera safely in the roughest going.

It's been 6 months now since I unboxed everything. The lens support and baseplate fit perfectly as it's made for the C300 and of course it's fully adjustable. I removed the 4 tiny screws that hold the cold shoe unto the carrying handle and set the cold shoe aside while I tossed the handle in a spare parts box. I than grabbed a hacksaw and carefully cut the ring off the mic mount and cold welded the cold shoe on top of what's left of the mic mount. This setup works so slick, my mic has a holder that slides unto the cold shoe in a second or two. So often speed is the name of the game for setting up to capture a quick wildlife shot.

Like most changes in life it takes time to adjust, and going from small sensor cameras ( since 1991 ) to the C300 is quite something to get used to. I started off filming around the yard on flowers,trees. my kids playing, etc,trying to get a feel for the camera ( I wasn't ready to dash off to the hills quite yet). Practice, practice and more practice was the order of the day for a number of days as I gradually started to feel comfortable using it. After nightfall would find me out filming flying moths in our yard I couln't see with my naked eye, filming groups of stars, no problem. To be able to shoot clean in low light, what a huge plus for filmmakers. The sky is your limit to bring out your creativeness. I must say congratulations to Canon for building this camera, the footage is simply stunning if you do your part. It is a very rugged camera for wildlife filmmaking and in the six months I've used it, it has never let me down. I hope to use it for many years God willing, I can't see why I would need to upgrade. There are 2 things I wish they ( Canon ) would of done, added a Start / Stop button on the front lower left side of the camera and 1080 60p.

So, is this a great camera for wildlife? In a word, Yes! It is more challenging than using small sensor cameras, however the look and feel of your films will take a large leap forward once you master it. You won't be disappointed.

Leon Lorenz
Canadian Wildlife Productions: Grizzly Bears, Bighorm Sheep in Alberta & BC Rockies DVD Videos
Leon Lorenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 05:00 PM   #50
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kent UK
Posts: 1,397
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Hi Leon

Just to chime in (Only just seen this)

I leave for a nat geo shoot in Sumatra (Elephant) in a weeks time with the C300 ! I've not used the camera in anger yet but in lots of testing I'm very impressed. I normally shoot varicam but this project will require lots of walking and being able to move quickly. The lighter camera, tripod and batteries will make this possible. It also won't require much long lens work although I am going to take a 100-400+1.4. Having stabilised lens options is also a real plus. I'm very impressed with its ability handheld with IS. The other thing I've noticed. Lenses that I didn't like on the 7d (24-105) shine on the C300. To me the images are sharp enough with so much resolution that you don't need the ultra sharp glass that 7d needed to make a pleasing image.

The biggest issue for me is the lack of zoom ratio. To bag a good sequence in a short event you really need more than a x4 ratio. I am going to take either a 28-300 or 35-350 for one of my sequences that I know I'll only have a few minutes to bag all my shots. I'm pretty sure these lenses will be fine when it comes to IQ. Let me know if you've tried them ?

Of course the look is great and I think this story will look great told with the visual possibilities of such a camera.

What I would say is. There is no such thing as the perfect camera for wildlife shooting. I mean 'wildlife'...its a pretty broad term after all. I've gone for this camera because finally theres a broadcast legal camera (in camera) that will produce stunning images on par with a varicam and I don't need to spend 20K in lenses, 3-5k on a tripod etc etc. It has benefits over the varicam and drawbacks but it will suit some of my jobs and for those I'm sure it will be great.

Anyway... I'm sure I'll post about the my project on my return!

Mat
Mat Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 05:29 PM   #51
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Mat, a hunch tells me that it might be you that bought Nigel Barker's gently used C300. Nice move if it was you.

After watching (again) today's stunning 'Africa' on the BBC, which featured (African!) elephants for a good part of the broadcast, I have to say I feel rather jealous...! Amazing footage, as always with anything involving David Attenborough.

Good luck.
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #52
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 57
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon Lorenz View Post
There are 2 things I wish they ( Canon ) would of done, added a Start / Stop button on the front lower left side of the camera and 1080 60p.
Leon Lorenz
Canadian Wildlife Productions: Grizzly Bears, Bighorm Sheep in Alberta & BC Rockies DVD Videos
Uhh...there is a Start/Stop on the front.
Attached Thumbnails
C300 for wildlife filmmaking?-picture-4.png  
David A. Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 08:16 PM   #53
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lake Atitlan, Guatemala
Posts: 341
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon Lorenz View Post

So, is this a great camera for wildlife? In a word, Yes! It is more challenging than using small sensor cameras, however the look and feel of your films will take a large leap forward once you master it. You won't be disappointed.

Leon Lorenz
Canadian Wildlife Productions: Grizzly Bears, Bighorm Sheep in Alberta & BC Rockies DVD Videos
Great to hear your review Leon. And have to say I feel more than a little jealous. Worked for the Booster in Jasper years ago and loved the area there and west towards PG. Sounds like you've got a great gig!!
Dave Mercer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #54
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rossland, British Columbia
Posts: 966
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Hi Leon,
How are you finding the limited range of your C300 compared to your old H1 setup with its massive magnification? Are you still only shooting with the 70-200 plus 2x extender or do you have longer lenses you had from your last set up? One thing is for sure, i think with the much larger tv's in living rooms these days, the need for ultra close ups is maybe not as great as it was a few years ago when a large tv was 30". Now with a 80" tv, a wider shot would i think have a similar effect.
Oh & by the way, i ordered your latest dvd a couple of weeks ago, so am eagerly anticipating it coming in the mail & watching it!
Regards,
Bryce
__________________
There's never enough hours in the day!
Bryce Comer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 09:48 PM   #55
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: McBride BC Canada
Posts: 98
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Mat, yes the lack of a good zoom ratio in most lenses is an issue. I haven't tried the lenses you mentioned. How do you like them and are they heavy? It would be nice if Canon would / could make a 24-240 that's not much heavier than their 70- 200. I'm often finding I can't go wide enough filming in thick cover. I may try the new Canon 24- 70 for close work. All the best on your upcoming filming trip.

David, yes I know there is one on the front right, I would of liked one on the left front side as the camera is facing away from you.

Dave, I shot part of my third film "Bighorn Showdowns" in the Jasper area around 10 years ago. It sure is a beautiful area to live and film. We live in the heart of the Robson Valley which is only about 75 miles west of Jasper.

Cheers to all.
Leon Lorenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 10:08 PM   #56
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: McBride BC Canada
Posts: 98
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Hi Bryce

Your post came in before I could respond to it in my last post. I'm not really missing the extra zoom compared to being able to go wide quickly on fast action shots. Somehow the detail on subjects seem good even on wider shots. I'm sure the large sensor makes a difference.

Thanks for ordering "Wildest of the Wild", you should be receiving it soon.

Thanks,

Leon Lorenz
Canadian Wildlife Productions: Grizzly Bears, Bighorm Sheep in Alberta & BC Rockies DVD Videos
Leon Lorenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2013, 06:06 AM   #57
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kent UK
Posts: 1,397
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Hi guys

As an add on to this a fellow cameraman friend shooting for the same series has shot a full sequence with a C300 + 100-400 + doubler.

Apparently the footage is great even though this combo is not recommended usually to image degradation. As I said in my last post I don't think this camera requires the sharpest of the sharp to produce great images. Of course this combo is pretty slow so requires good light, again the C300 can handle that and this does take you out to super telephoto.

Mat
Mat Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2013, 07:29 AM   #58
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi, India
Posts: 485
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

I am using C300 for shooting wildlife in India.

The difference between the C300 footage and DSLR footage is stunning. There is a lot of detail in the C300 footage even with the low quality 24-105. Most of the time I am using the 24-105 instead of the 24-70 f2.8 L USM lens because of the IS in the 24-105. I checked the new 24-70 but felt the need of IS and hence mostly using the 24-105 for close action.

I use the 400 f2.8 L IS USM lens with 1.4x and 2x II TCs. The footage is nice. The 100-400 works well with the 1.4x TC and is surprisingly very nice and can be used with beanbag or monopod.

I hope Canon can bring in slow motion ability in 1080p.
__________________
Wild Tiger Productions
http://www.indiawilds.com/about.htm
Sabyasachi Patra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2013, 08:55 AM   #59
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 576
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

I disagree. I think it can be a great wildlife camera, if.....if you have the right lenses and perhaps using a x2 extender converter, but for those extra reach shots you will need to spend big bikkies on lenses.
Lee Mullen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2013, 04:13 AM   #60
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kent UK
Posts: 1,397
Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?

Hi guys

Just a kit update as I know its always useful to get views on lens setups.

I can personally confirm the 100-400 with x2 produces a good sharp image with the C300. It will be good to know I have a long lens option in the bag. With the base plate system I have setup up I can add it in about 15-20 secs which is not too bad either.

The 35-350 has also been a good choice. The image is sharp enough and colours are great. It doesn't stand up well with the x2, havent tried the 1.4 yet. But as a x10 zoom option it seems very good.

Mat
Mat Thompson is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:46 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network