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Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


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Old May 1st, 2013, 01:51 AM   #16
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Good quality older primes are fab. Usual caveats apply:

- Image Stabilisation. For me, this is where OE manufacturers have us by the short and curlies. Any focal length above 35mm or so is susceptible to vibration when hand held. Depending on the kind of vibration and frequency etc, you can sometimes fix it in the edit. If you're always shooting on solid legs in nice weather, you may not need IS at all.

- Lens coatings. Older lenses often have inferior coatings to reduce flare. On the other hand, that's part of their charm.

- Chromatic Aberration - modern camera/lens systems reduce this considerably. But it's possibly more of an issue for stills shooters.

I can't think of any others off the top of my head, but I'm sure others will chip in. The headline issue for me is always IS, as I often shoot handheld - otherwise I'd shoot with nothing but manual/old lenses.

Check out lesser talked about stuff like Yashica (Contax) and Ricoh. I love trawling around used camera shops for the odd gem and lens adapters are cheap and plentiful on ebay and Amazon. If you can afford them, Leica M lenses are stunning, super fast and tiny full-frame lenses made of pure unobtainium. But you're competing with people like my well-paid surgeon brother, who collects them.

I'd also have a play with some modern cheap alternatives, such as Samyang. CVP sell them - so I'm sure they'd let you have a tinker with them before buying.

Ben.
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Old May 1st, 2013, 09:09 AM   #17
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Having recently taken possession of a C100 and have owned an xf305 for a few years, I think Ben hit the nail on the head. When and if I need 4:2:2 (for theatrical or that long anticipated "broadcast quality") I'll likely plug in the Ninja and go to work. In the meantime, all his statements are accurate in my case. I got the C100, and immediately started using all my EF-S and EF lenses. My entire kit of years of glass acquisition is useful, the camera ergonomics are a joy, and there are a few folks around the world that are already showing off the Ninja attached to a C100 for broadcast work. (there is a guy in Italy on Vimeo shooting a cooking show with one I saw recently). He had it mounted, along with the camera, on a glidecam if I remember right.

Don't get me wrong, I love the xf305 4:2:2 look. Superb quality. If I was making a bit more money on my jobs or I thought my clients could tell the difference, I would have bought the C300. But for the difference in price, it's just not worth it. My initial shooting sessions in the last week have shown me that the latitude with the C100 out of the camera, (I've not even had time to load new picture files), is just great. WideDR and EOS standard are working for now, but I assume I'll do BBC and others soon.

I assume you guys have seen this...the last half is a demo of the Ninja 2 on the C100 and shows a reasonable mounting option.
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Old May 1st, 2013, 11:02 AM   #18
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Me again....

Does anyone have experience of the Canon 24-105 and the 17-55? I find the IS on the 24-105 to be very noticeable in the audio of any clips recorded with it and wondered if the 17-55 is any quieter. The IS on the 24-105 is really nice and I can get very acceptable handheld shots with it on a DSLR, it's just the noise that is an issue.


@ Al - The video from Stefan is the one along with the comments on this thread that made my mind up to get a C100 rather than C300.
I'm hoping to order it today or tomorrow.

@ Ben - Where did you order your C1oo from as your price sounds really good? The cheapest I have found at the moment is Proactive. A pity Jigsaw24 are a bit more expensive as they are about 3 miles from me.
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Old May 1st, 2013, 12:49 PM   #19
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Andy, I bought it from Proactive. I think I may have said 3275, but just checked and it was 3295 + VAT.

They've notched the price back up by 100, but you can always ask them to match what I paid on the 12th April.

Ben.
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Old May 1st, 2013, 01:39 PM   #20
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Wow! I'm thankful for the world I live and work in. I shoot and produce a weekly gardening feature for broadcast. It is also distributed on the web. It is presently shot and posted on a XDCAM HD 35mbs 4:2:0 codec. A couple of stations air the feature in this native codec, and a few more take delivery of the features in a MPEG2 15 mb/s. codec. No one complains. For my product and workflow, the c100 AVCHD codec is going to work just fine, even for broadcast. That's why I asked why the Ninja 2 was even necessary. I loved Ben's line about how many engineers could even tell the difference in the 24 mb AVCHD codec and the 50 mb MPEG codec. I would wager that very few could consistently pick correctly.
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Old May 1st, 2013, 08:07 PM   #21
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Tim, it's my understanding, after doing extensive research when I started my current video project for a Tribe here in the Pacific NW, that many cable channels and local channels may not care, if the content and execution (meaning your professionalism) is good. As you step up to producing for national and international outlets, its seems you risk the possibilty of being rejected (or possibly forced) to shoot 4:2:2. Some outlets allow part of a doc to be shot in 4:2:0 (or less than 'broadcast quality'). Others on this board with more experience can chime in and correct me. But that was my takeaway. I have shot the current, unique tribal project in 4:2:2 because I was (and am) not wanting to limit it's possible distribution if I do a great job, as it's very unique footage. So I could not risk it. But for the bulk of my projects, they are very web oriented, and as such, no one knows the difference and no one asks. They just want their ideas turned into professional looking video. They want it as inexpensive as possible, but understand that it's not free (G). They want to deal with someone who is also professional and understands contracts, billing cycles and delivers on time. That's the usual situation, I think for most of us.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 09:03 PM   #22
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

I got my C100 + Ninja 2 today. The batteries are still charging so I've not used it at all yet.

I have a bit of a problem with the Ninja though. I can't get the HDD caddy out of the unit. I read the pdf manual that says it's a bit stiff but I've been pulling as hard as I dare and it won't budge! The little black switch next to the power button doesn't really seem to move much when push up to unlock the caddy.

Anyone else's caddies this stiff?
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Old June 7th, 2013, 02:36 PM   #23
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

I just received the Ninja 2 and I am disappointed with how dark the image is. Now....I already own a Samurai for use with my XLh1 and it was dark already. But this is even darker....even at the brightest settings. It is "really dark"!! Anyone else noticing this? Again....I thought I knew what to expect but this is far darker than the Samurai. The Samurai was barely usable to judge focus sometimes....I cannot imagine this!

Anyone........
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Old June 7th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #24
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Solaini View Post
I got my C100 + Ninja 2 today. The batteries are still charging so I've not used it at all yet.

I have a bit of a problem with the Ninja though. I can't get the HDD caddy out of the unit. I read the pdf manual that says it's a bit stiff but I've been pulling as hard as I dare and it won't budge! The little black switch next to the power button doesn't really seem to move much when push up to unlock the caddy.

Anyone else's caddies this stiff?
Great Caesars Ghost! Now my caddie is stuck and I cannot get it out! Did you ever figure this out?

Nevermind! I got it! What a pain this is gonna be when it's mounted on my camera! Ugh! The locking mechanism on my Samurai was basically broken so the drives came out easily. The casing itself provided enough friction to hold the drives in place.
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Old June 7th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #25
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Mine was hard to remove when I first got it. Its as if the release switch doesn't do anything. But 2 weeks later it comes out a lot easier. So don't panic.

Drew
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Old June 7th, 2013, 03:39 PM   #26
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik View Post
I just received the Ninja 2 and I am disappointed with how dark the image is. Now....I already own a Samurai for use with my XLh1 and it was dark already. But this is even darker....even at the brightest settings. It is "really dark"!! Anyone else noticing this? Again....I thought I knew what to expect but this is far darker than the Samurai. The Samurai was barely usable to judge focus sometimes....I cannot imagine this!

Anyone........
No mine isn't dark at all. Brightness is set at about 75%.
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Old June 7th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #27
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

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Originally Posted by Drew Curran View Post
No mine isn't dark at all. Brightness is set at about 75%.
Really? Mine is at maximum brightness and it is at least 3-4 stops lighter than the camera LCD. I cannot increase it anymore. Is your model the original Ninja2 or one of the ones from the new kit? I may have to send this back if this isn't normal. Maybe I'll post some footage of the screen compared to the Samurai or compare to the C100 LCD. I am talking scenes I tested in my office where it was clearly visible in the LCD but the Ninja was basically black. Then when I hit the focus enhance features they show up all over what appears o be invisible objects.....so I believe this is simply a screen backlight issue. The information is being recorded but the screen is so dark as to not see moderately lit items.

Hmmm........
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Old June 8th, 2013, 02:21 AM   #28
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

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Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik View Post
Really? Mine is at maximum brightness and it is at least 3-4 stops lighter than the camera LCD. I cannot increase it anymore. Is your model the original Ninja2 or one of the ones from the new kit? I may have to send this back if this isn't normal. Maybe I'll post some footage of the screen compared to the Samurai or compare to the C100 LCD. I am talking scenes I tested in my office where it was clearly visible in the LCD but the Ninja was basically black. Then when I hit the focus enhance features they show up all over what appears o be invisible objects.....so I believe this is simply a screen backlight issue. The information is being recorded but the screen is so dark as to not see moderately lit items.

Hmmm........
Mine is a new Ninja 2 purchase 2 weeks ago. What you have described doesn't sound right. You've maybe got a lemon. Talk to the experts on the forum at Atomos.com or return it to the store.
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Old June 8th, 2013, 10:51 AM   #29
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik View Post
Really? Mine is at maximum brightness and it is at least 3-4 stops lighter than the camera LCD. I cannot increase it anymore. Is your model the original Ninja2 or one of the ones from the new kit? I may have to send this back if this isn't normal. Maybe I'll post some footage of the screen compared to the Samurai or compare to the C100 LCD. I am talking scenes I tested in my office where it was clearly visible in the LCD but the Ninja was basically black. Then when I hit the focus enhance features they show up all over what appears o be invisible objects.....so I believe this is simply a screen backlight issue. The information is being recorded but the screen is so dark as to not see moderately lit items.

Hmmm........
Mine was dark compared to the C100 LCD but not as dark as what you describe. Mine also had a very pronounced red tint to the screen and recorded clips compared to the C100 native clips, especially under normal room lights.
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Old June 8th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #30
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Re: C100 + Ninja 2 question

Not to totally change subject but related to the c100/c300 debate: What're your guys thoughts on the f5? From what little I've seen so far the f5 makes the c300 a really hard sell..
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