C100 removal of PSF interlacing in post at DVinfo.net

Marty Hudzik · May 6th, 2013, 12:03 PM

Guys. I am still in my brief 3 day demo of the C100 but I am curious if there is an easy way to remove the padded frames of a 24psf output recorded on an original Atomos Ninja? The clips are 60i with the 24 embedded via pulldown. Is there a non destructive way to rebuild this into a true progressive clip?

I am aware that the Ninja 2 better handles this....but with an original Ninja at my disposal....I wanted to see if there is an easy way to take advantage of it.

Thanks.....and sorry if this is a dumb question. I just have another 24 hours to evaluate the camera and I am trying to cover all options.

Steve Game · May 6th, 2013, 12:21 PM

Surely when you put it on the timeline, the NLE should treat it as 24p. Then when you render out it will be whatever you have chosen.

Marty Hudzik · May 6th, 2013, 01:17 PM

I dunno! I haven't used any type of 3:2 pulldown material in years so that is why I am asking. I am aware that I can remove it via After Effects but isn't that destructive? Aren't some of the frames split across multiple fields, hence a need to decode/encode to get it to progressive....and a generation loss? I am wondering if the fill progressive frames are intact without have to be re-encoded. Or am I misunderstanding the PSF structure? Again...sorry if this is obvious and I am not seeing it.

Mervin Langley · May 6th, 2013, 01:46 PM

Sorry if this is a stupid question (just for my own information as I am just starting to use the c100 and Ninja2) but why not just record in 24P?

Marty Hudzik · May 6th, 2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mervin Langley

Sorry if this is a stupid question (just for my own information as I am just starting to use the c100 and Ninja2) but why not just record in 24P?

I currently have the camera in 24P for internal recording. I was under the impression that the original Ninja wanted to record a 60i stream. If the Ninja1 can record true 24P "and" the C100 output true 24P with no "segmented frames" inserted to make 60i, then I will!

The user manual only references 60i and 50i as output types for the HDMI ports.....so I won't know until I try this tonight I guess.

James Strange · May 6th, 2013, 06:24 PM

In premiere.

Right click footage (you can highlight all c100 clips)

> Modify > Interperet footage > set frame rate / progressive etc

Marty Hudzik · May 7th, 2013, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Strange

In premiere.

Right click footage (you can highlight all c100 clips)

> Modify > Interperet footage > set frame rate / progressive etc

I just tried this and it does "not" actually remove any type of pulldown. I can specify the field order or tell it to treat the file as progressive. When viewing the footage you can clearly still see the 3:3 pulldown cadence and every 3-4 frames is severely interlaced.

I am using Adobe Premiere CS 5.5.

Marty Hudzik · May 7th, 2013, 08:08 AM

After doing a lot of reading and research I am 99% sure that the C100 will only output an interlaced signal....regardless of what mode you are internally recording to. So....if you have an external device that will "not" detect and remove the 3:2 pulldown on the fly, you end up with a file that needs to have this done in post.

I am looking for a quick reliable way to do this on a PC if possible. As my previous post indicated, Premiere Cs5.5 doesn't seem to know how to remove this internally.

Pavel Sedlak · May 7th, 2013, 09:07 AM

C100 camera has an another issue - red colors looks like an interlaced thing. I see the same issue on the G10's clips so it is really some Canon AVCHD issue.

My way of work with C100's AVCHD clips is convert them to XDCAM EX HQ codec (1920x1080, 35Mbps VBR). I work in Avid MC/Symphony 6.5 and I can make this conversion during import. I try different sort of codec but only this one solve the problem (sorry for my English).

This is my way of work with Canon's AVCHD, the result is ok (you can make the interpret footage change and it will be ok now).

Marty Hudzik · May 9th, 2013, 10:05 AM

So I have access to an original Atomos Ninja and it does not support the automatic pulldown removal. If I were to use the original Ninja and have the C100 set to 24P, the HDMI feed would be just 60i with the 24P embedded via psf, correct. I could then remove it in post.....does that sound right?

My concern is that the link below says the Ninja doesn't support 24psf. But what confuses me is that isn't all of this just really 60i on the output? how does the ninja know the difference from 60i vs 30p embedded in 60i or 24p embedded in 60i?

J6 - When should I use 24p? - ATOMOS

May 6th, 2013, 12:03 PM	#1
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	C100 removal of PSF interlacing in post Guys. I am still in my brief 3 day demo of the C100 but I am curious if there is an easy way to remove the padded frames of a 24psf output recorded on an original Atomos Ninja? The clips are 60i with the 24 embedded via pulldown. Is there a non destructive way to rebuild this into a true progressive clip? I am aware that the Ninja 2 better handles this....but with an original Ninja at my disposal....I wanted to see if there is an easy way to take advantage of it. Thanks.....and sorry if this is a dumb question. I just have another 24 hours to evaluate the camera and I am trying to cover all options.

May 6th, 2013, 12:21 PM	#2
Steve Game Major Player Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: London, UK Posts: 353	Re: C100 removal of PSF interlacing in post Surely when you put it on the timeline, the NLE should treat it as 24p. Then when you render out it will be whatever you have chosen.

May 6th, 2013, 01:17 PM	#3
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Re: C100 removal of PSF interlacing in post I dunno! I haven't used any type of 3:2 pulldown material in years so that is why I am asking. I am aware that I can remove it via After Effects but isn't that destructive? Aren't some of the frames split across multiple fields, hence a need to decode/encode to get it to progressive....and a generation loss? I am wondering if the fill progressive frames are intact without have to be re-encoded. Or am I misunderstanding the PSF structure? Again...sorry if this is obvious and I am not seeing it.

May 6th, 2013, 01:46 PM	#4
Mervin Langley Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Burlington, Wisconsin Posts: 137	Re: C100 removal of PSF interlacing in post Sorry if this is a stupid question (just for my own information as I am just starting to use the c100 and Ninja2) but why not just record in 24P?

May 6th, 2013, 06:24 PM	#6
James Strange Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Posts: 309	Re: C100 removal of PSF interlacing in post In premiere. Right click footage (you can highlight all c100 clips) > Modify > Interperet footage > set frame rate / progressive etc

May 7th, 2013, 08:08 AM	#8
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Re: C100 removal of PSF interlacing in post After doing a lot of reading and research I am 99% sure that the C100 will only output an interlaced signal....regardless of what mode you are internally recording to. So....if you have an external device that will "not" detect and remove the 3:2 pulldown on the fly, you end up with a file that needs to have this done in post. I am looking for a quick reliable way to do this on a PC if possible. As my previous post indicated, Premiere Cs5.5 doesn't seem to know how to remove this internally.

May 7th, 2013, 09:07 AM	#9
Pavel Sedlak Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Prague Czech Republic Posts: 263	Re: C100 removal of PSF interlacing in post C100 camera has an another issue - red colors looks like an interlaced thing. I see the same issue on the G10's clips so it is really some Canon AVCHD issue. My way of work with C100's AVCHD clips is convert them to XDCAM EX HQ codec (1920x1080, 35Mbps VBR). I work in Avid MC/Symphony 6.5 and I can make this conversion during import. I try different sort of codec but only this one solve the problem (sorry for my English). This is my way of work with Canon's AVCHD, the result is ok (you can make the interpret footage change and it will be ok now).

May 9th, 2013, 10:05 AM	#10
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Re: C100 removal of PSF interlacing in post So I have access to an original Atomos Ninja and it does not support the automatic pulldown removal. If I were to use the original Ninja and have the C100 set to 24P, the HDMI feed would be just 60i with the 24P embedded via psf, correct. I could then remove it in post.....does that sound right? My concern is that the link below says the Ninja doesn't support 24psf. But what confuses me is that isn't all of this just really 60i on the output? how does the ninja know the difference from 60i vs 30p embedded in 60i or 24p embedded in 60i? J6 - When should I use 24p? - ATOMOS