C100 - about to buy at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems

Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 16th, 2013, 08:53 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 370
C100 - about to buy

Hi guys,

Before I hit add to basket, should I also consider the Sony FS100? Its nearly 1000 cheaper, and does 50p. The thing is, the C100 image blows me away, when I compare it to what I currently use - a mix of Canon 550d, 650d and 5D Mk2. You might say yes consider the FS100, because in comparison to those DSLRs its a great step up. But here's the thing... I've also shot with a Red Scarlet and edited the resulting footage and am now addicted to sharpness and dynamic range! Its way out of my budget unfortunately! And the BMCC waiting period is anyones guess.

Thats why I'm looking at the C100 - the dynamic many times greater in the footage I've seen posted in comparison to DSLRs. The sharpness is also on another level. However, I haven't seen many comparisons with the FS100.

I'm trying to look at this without considering factors like my Canon lenses, ergonomics, form factor, etc, and focus only on picture quality.

Are there any of you good folk who have used an FS100 who can provide info on comparative picture quality?

Thanks

Drew.
Drew Curran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2013, 11:00 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Brighton, Colorado
Posts: 335
Re: C100 - about to buy

Recently bought a Canon C100 after owning a Sony FS700 for a day! I found out something about myself, size and simplicity matter to me. The C100 has a clean body design and style. On top of that, the footage is very clean and sharp. Very similar to the results I get with my Nikon D800 but better because it doesn't have the moire and aliasing.

With the FS700 or FS100 in your case. You will need a lens adapter for your Nikon or Canon lenses. I haven't heard to many people using the e-mount lenses. The ergonomics of the Fs100 are awkward. The C100 shines in this department. Having shot with a Red Scarlet, I find the size and form-factor similar to the C100. I have no regrets switching from the Sony to the Canon.

A few things a the C100 has over the FS100

Separate viewfinder and LCD screen
Built-in ND's 0, 2, 4, 6 stops
Native Support for Canon Lenses
Dual SD Card Slots
A handle that actually makes sense

FS100 has over the C100

1080p 60, 50, no awkward PSF
Interval Recording
Slow Shutter

Hope this helps.
__________________
Jeff Zimmerman Colorado DP Videographer
Sony PXW-FS7 www.m3films.com
Jeff Zimmerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2013, 01:51 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 370
Re: C100 - about to buy

Thanks Jeff,

Would you say the quality of the image is better on the Canon?

Yes ergonomics are very important to me as often run and gun style is called for and the c100 fits that bill well.

I've been looking at FS100 footage again today and must say its good but to my eye the c100 has it. I wrote a personal pros and cons list and apart from 50/60p the c100 came out on top for me.

I'm an FCPx user so I'm hoping native support for Canons weird PSF will come eventually or am I missing something? I've been reading that a Ninja 2 will record in ProRes and will get around this issue.

Thanks

drew.
Drew Curran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2013, 02:21 PM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
Re: C100 - about to buy

Hopefully Matt Davis will chime in (as I think he has a FS100, or maybe FS700) as well as a C100.

Me personally, I have a C100 and an EX3. I just LOVE the small, highly ergonomic and rugged form factor of the C100 as well as it's superb dynamic range and low noise results (I just use Wide DR for now).

Sure the EVF is not good - but I've learnt to live with it/have given up waiting for the Zacuto Finder on LCD solution (and now I doubt I'll buy that anyway - they have just been too late to the party with a string of broken promises on delivery dates).

It is a superb cam for the type of work I do (corporate) and clients seem to absolutely LOVE the results/pay me well for them.

What more does one need! Well yes, 50p....but I have other cams that do that blummin well - damn you Canon!

This film was shot with both cams - the C100 did the nice shots!

http://www.shootingimage.co.uk/CO-OP...-OP3MINYT.html
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2013, 04:16 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 370
Re: C100 - about to buy

Thanks Andy,
This is great information and is helping me greatly.

I've been watching more bts videos of people using the c100 and it is so versatile which will be useful for me coming for a DSLR background.

I think the fs100 is looking less like being part of my workflow due to my canon lenses (I know there are converters but I love the native control of the c100). The fs100 kit lens supplied with it is too slow for a lot of the locations I end up working in, which brings me to the amazing low light capabilities of the c100.

Btw is the PSF issue the same with Premiere CS 6?

Thanks again.

Drew.
Drew Curran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2013, 10:00 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Brighton, Colorado
Posts: 335
Re: C100 - about to buy

Talked with a friend who owns a FS700 asked how he thought the footage compared to the C100. We shoot similar styles and sometimes on the same shoots. He thinks the Canon handles the highlights better and gives a nicer picture straight out of the camera. He bought the FS700 primarily for the frame rates otherwise he says, would have bought the C100.

I'll try some things with Psf and let you know how it goes. It should handle like 60i in opinion but then again not everything is perfect with today's editing software.
__________________
Jeff Zimmerman Colorado DP Videographer
Sony PXW-FS7 www.m3films.com

Last edited by Jeff Zimmerman; May 17th, 2013 at 09:19 AM.
Jeff Zimmerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013, 01:02 AM   #7
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 15
Re: C100 - about to buy

Sounds like you already made up your mind with all the C100 praises, no need to ask the same questions over, check out a straight comparison test from Matt Davis. He owns the FS100 iirc
Josh Kallis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013, 01:35 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 370
Re: C100 - about to buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Zimmerman View Post
Talked with a friend who owns a FS700 asked how he thought the footage compared to the C100. We shot similar styles and sometimes on the same shots. He thinks the Canon handles the highlights better and give a nicer picture straight out of the camera. He bought the FS700 primarily for the frame rates otherwise he says would have bought the C100.

I'll try some things with Psf and let you know how it goes. It should handle like 60i in opinion but then again not everything perfect with today's editing software.

Thanks Jeff. Thats very helpful.
Drew Curran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013, 01:45 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 370
Re: C100 - about to buy

Yes josh, looks like it.
Drew Curran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013, 02:42 AM   #10
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 15
Re: C100 - about to buy

I'm sorry my previous post wasn't meant to offend you.

How much are you going to pay if you don't mind me asking? I've been watching them since December and have a pretty good price match going from store to store. It's quite funny watching the prices, some places drop by hundreds then go back up a couple days later.

Been on the market myself for one which is why i'm reading your thread, but in no hurry. I'm over the 'FS100 might just do the job but i'll always wish I got the C100' stage and have entered the 'Ok so nothing at NAB but surely a C100 will just suddenly drop a grand or two' dream.

Last edited by Josh Kallis; May 17th, 2013 at 03:39 AM. Reason: no idea
Josh Kallis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013, 05:18 AM   #11
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,562
Re: C100 - about to buy

Sorry for not spotting this earlier - out on yet another busy shoot. With the C100 of course.

Should one consider the FS100?

Well, maybe one should consider asking in the FS100 forum, as over here we're all a little biassed! :-)

Seriously, though - it depends on what sort of shooter you are, what sort of image you're looking for, and what you're prepared to give up.

FS100 - very adaptable camera for not much money, things like 1080p60, 2x slomo (and burst modes beyond that), intervalometer combined with slow shutter effects, a vast range of glass to choose from including overlooked FD classics and clever e-mount lenses. But it is NOT a run and gun camera, I spent 2K decking out a shoulder mount rig for it, and it just doesn't want to work nicely. Too heavy, unwieldy, just not a happy thing. Then there's the image quality: because it's overzealous in protecting your images from moire and aliasing, the actual detail - the resolution - is a little disappointing for me. It just doesn't have the bite to do chromakey or deliver detail like a 3-chip camera can. It also has issues with strong contrast round highlights which show odd 'oversharpened' artifacts if you choose to blow the highlights.

There's also a lot of alchemy involved in controlling the picture to get that elusive 'feel' with Picture Profiles. This can become a diversion verging on obsession, and with 3-5 different profiles being used on a job, I was beginning to wonder if it was all necessary (the answer is 'sort of').

The FS700 solved a lot of that - and it was the camera that should have come first. The biggest thing for me is that it has 'CineGamma', which gives you a nice picture, well controlled highlights, and a little creative wriggle room - in tricky lighting, it stomps over the FS100. Of course it's also got spectacular slomo, all the other stuff, and NDs. It's got 4K potential, better detail, yada yada yada. If you're looking at Sony FSxxx, IMHO you *have* to go all out on the FS700 if you possibly can. Love-it/hate-it ergonomics aside (every FSxxx user should chop their chimney viewfinder and rediscover the hand grip, btw), the FS series are CLEVER cameras, slightly geeky, quirky, but very clever. They do a lot.

Which brings us to the C100. It doesn't do much, but what it does do, it does VERY well. Superb picture quality with loads of detail, superb audio circuits and mic pre-amps (seriously, you can hear the difference between the C100 and FS100/700 and EX1), 2 slots (dual record or A/B swap - sure feels good to dual record!). Picture profiles? Nah - WDR and C-Log are brilliant. No alchemy, just shoot.

I've been with EX1s and EX3s since they were launched. They were - are - great workhorse cameras. When DSLRs entered the market, of course I wanted to switch but found out that - in my niche of the industry at least - DSLRs could become a liability (white set, chromakey, shutter speed tuning, shot length, overheating). My fellow videographers and I would share beer and dream of a day when we'd get a sort of DSLR-EX1 hybrid. Small, handy, sharp, sensitive, etc.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is the C100.

I may as well 'come out of the closet' and state that IMHO, the C100 pictures are nicer AND technically better. So much so that I've sold my FS100. I was going to go FS700, but there are things the C100 does (which are very important to me) that the FS700 does not. Had I owned an FS700, would I sell to move to the C100? Hmm - probably not, but that wasn't my case.

However, we had to give up some important features: the C100 lacks 'dual level control audio', slomo, 720p50, slow framerates/intervalomenter/timelapse functions (though it does have a slow shutter). There are 101 little niggles - and the ingest isn't perfect either. NO SHOT DURATION! Last-clip-playback is MUTE! (some bowel stirring moments in the early days). But the nurse says I must rest now.

So, in summary - IMHO, as a corporate event shooter,
- FS700 - for shooters with a very wide range of things to shoot in clever ways and play the 4K game
- C100 - for shooters who are asked to 'video' things like talking heads and B-Roll, and MUST have no flickery business with monitors/projection in shot, and simply want the best in-camera image they can get

I am still charmed by the FS100, and would love to own an FS700, and they are the better camera for certain types of videographer. For me, for what I do, the C100 works better.
__________________
Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro
EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6
Matt Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013, 06:54 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 370
Re: C100 - about to buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Kallis View Post
You're upset?

I'm sorry my previous post wasn't meant to offend you.

How much are you going to pay if you don't mind me asking? I've been watching them since December and have a pretty good price match going from store to store. It's quite funny watching the prices, some places drop by hundreds then go back up a couple days later.

Been on the market myself for one which is why i'm reading your thread, but in no hurry. I'm over the 'FS100 might just do the job but i'll always wish I got the C100' stage and have entered the 'Ok so nothing at NAB but surely a C100 will just suddenly drop a grand or two' dream.
Nah Josh I'm not upset. Sorry if it sounded that way! I'm asking a lot of questions because I don't want to get this purchase wrong. I like to use 720 50p on the 550d/650d on a very rare occasion (because the quality isn't good enough) so I hope I don't miss it on the C100!

The going rate from 2 quotations I've received for the C100 ranges from around 3162 - 3375 plus VAT - which is cheaper than the prices listed the same companies websites, so its worth calling around. However, the quotes included a Ninja 2 which might influence the price a little.
Drew Curran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013, 07:13 AM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 370
Re: C100 - about to buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Davis View Post

(FS100) But it is NOT a run and gun camera,

Which brings us to the C100. It doesn't do much, but what it does do, it does VERY well. Superb picture quality with loads of detail, superb audio circuits and mic pre-amps (seriously, you can hear the difference between the C100 and FS100/700 and EX1), 2 slots (dual record or A/B swap - sure feels good to dual record!). Picture profiles? Nah - WDR and C-Log are brilliant. No alchemy, just shoot.

I am still charmed by the FS100, and would love to own an FS700, and they are the better camera for certain types of videographer. For me, for what I do, the C100 works better.
I'm just in from a run and gun type shoot with no tripod, some mono pod use, available light using the 550d, so versatility and compactness is important to me.

The C100 WDR and C-Log excites me. Having used Red RAW which I know is on another level, dynamic range is important to me and I'm often frustrated by the DSLR footage especially when lighting is bad and uncontrolled. Same goes for the detail which the C100 is so strong on.

Unfortunately the FS700 is out of my budget.

I think for me and for what I do, the C100 plus Ninja 2 it has to be.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Drew.
Drew Curran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013, 07:48 AM   #14
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 15
Re: C100 - about to buy

Ah then my quotes wont help you, best i've seen is 3900 inc vat without Ninja so very far off.

Glad you've stated that though as it stops me for going for what I thought were 'deals' :)
Josh Kallis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013, 10:21 AM   #15
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 1,770
Re: C100 - about to buy

I am a new C100 owner and I love it. Keep in mind that the Ninja 2 will make the C100 just a little less run and gun friendly. I have had an atomos samurai that I use with my Canon XL-h1 and as much as I love the quality, sometimes its a pain to work with on shoots that are spontaneous and I have to run and around and catch action on the fly. I imagine the same to be true with the C100....which feels so small and compact in it's base configuration.

Just keep this in mind as one of your main issues seemed to be the ability to run and gun easily. Also, I am very happy with the AVCHD footage so far....I will only be using the Samurai on shoots where I plan on a lot of post production effects and heavy grading.
Marty Hudzik is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:48 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network