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Kathy Smith May 18th, 2013 02:37 PM

C100 audio
 
I am having issues with audio because probably I don't know what I am doing. I have a nice mic (Sanken COS -11D) but I can't get decent sound. This is probably generic audio question not specific to C100. I changed mic sensitivity to -12db because I felt that the mic was very sensitive but I am not happy with the sound recording. I always hear this background sound like the third recording on this page https://soundcloud.com/mdmatv, I want to get what this person got in the second recording. Any clues how to achieve that?

Matt Davis May 19th, 2013 06:08 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
Hi Kathy,

you'll need to move into audio processing - 'grading for sound'.

The second track (oops, posted the singing toilet to the wrong account) has been through iZotope's Ozone -

iZotope Ozone 5 Complete Mastering System

which does a lot of clever things with multi-band compression, noise gates, exciters and so on.

So, I have a setting for my voice, and there are presets for male and female talky voiceovery audio which you can modify to taste. Ozone is meant for the final mastering of music, but it does nod towards voice.

It won't make bad audio good, but it can get you a nice result from properly recorded material - so the difference between the third and the second track is simply processing.

There's also a point at which you need to know if you're better served by a short shotgun, a large diaphragm condenser mic or a lavalier. Lavaliers are the least 'exciting' but thanks to the inverse square law of sound:

Inverse-square law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the closer a mic is, the more rejection of room tone you get, BUT it's thin and weedy and needs a little help in post. Use a shotgun mic, richer sound but odder accoustic pickup in my hands. Only sound engineers seem to have the knack.

Kathy Smith May 19th, 2013 06:19 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
Matt,

Thanks. I was looking at izotope RX. Now specific question about C100 and the Sanken mic. Do you find it very sensitive? I changed trimming on the camera to -12db but perhaps that's a bad idea.

Matt Davis May 19th, 2013 06:33 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
I'm currently sticking to 0dB - it seems fine.

There was a trick on other cameras that I hope Canon adopts in the C100 in the firmware upgrade: Essentially, you can feed the same mic into both channels using different gain settings, So, if you had a particularly strident contributor that swung from whisper to thunder and back again, you could nip the blown bits out in the edit and replace with the second channel turned down by -12 to -18 dB.

We don't have that. We have a limiter that will mop up the peaks, but it's a bit like fitting a rubber sheet. Yes, it's safe, but you really hope you won't actually need it.

And there's a tradition in the audio market that 'all audio knobs work at their best at the 12 O'Clock position' (in the middle). I'd check your level knob is at the mid point when set to 0dB, rather than having it cranked up to 7-10 and putting a -12dB pad on it.

Kathy Smith May 19th, 2013 07:09 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
Thanks Matt, this is very helpful. Can Izotope Ozone 5 remove background noise/background hiss? I have recorded something and the levels are too low between -18 and -12 and I need to raise them but of course I am also raising the background noise.

Also sorry to ask this rather basic question but you are the only person I know that has the same mic as I do, how do you loop that mic? when I loop the way it is show on the photo on the Sanken's website, the cable always sticks out.

Matt Davis May 19th, 2013 07:19 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
I'd love to demonstrate this (having been taught by the mighty Rick Sarson) - however, must now depart to airport onto another shoot.

Briefly, no - Ozone is a finishing tool, and RX is a noise repair tool.

IIRC, there's a basic but good de-noiser in Adobe Audition which may be a cut down no-frills version of RX, though I have both (and I use the Audition version mostly).

Kathy Smith May 19th, 2013 07:23 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
Thanks Matt. Have a nice shoot. Maybe when you are back you can demonstrate looping the mic?? Thanks again!

Don Bloom May 19th, 2013 07:48 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
Kathy,
I don't know anything about the Canon C100 but as to your question about setting up a broadcast loop on your sanken mic, this is the clip that virtually every news group uses (at least here in Chicago and most all I've ever seen). I've got them also and even though it says double mic of course you can use one and have an extra piece in case one gets lost. It is made for looping. I use Countryman EMW mics almost 100% but have used many others (except Sankens) in these clips and they work great.

Kathy Smith May 19th, 2013 08:23 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
Thanks Don. Do you have an opinion on vampire clip?

Don Bloom May 19th, 2013 11:27 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
Yes, I love them especially with a mic like the Countryman EMW or a Tram50 which are both small flat pieces that virtually disappear when placed properly. HOWEVER...(here's where the big but comes into play) No way to make a loop so you need to be 110% sure of wire placement so you eliminate any chance of wire brushing on fabric and possibly causing a sound that is really hard to get rid of. when I did use (or do use) the vampire clips I actually use a similar type of clip to hold the wire on the inside of the persons jacket of whatever.
Since some people feel that they don't have the time to allow proper placement of mic and wire (because they are so important, have done interviews before and they KNOW that there will be no noise issue) I prefer to use the Sennheiser clips and don't worry about whether it shows or not. They don't worry about on TV so why should I? (But that's just me)

Kathy Smith May 19th, 2013 11:48 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom (Post 1796220)
Yes, I love them especially with a mic like the Countryman EMW or a Tram50 which are both small flat pieces that virtually disappear when placed properly. HOWEVER...(here's where the big but comes into play) No way to make a loop so you need to be 110% sure of wire placement so you eliminate any chance of wire brushing on fabric and possibly causing a sound that is really hard to get rid of. when I did use (or do use) the vampire clips I actually use a similar type of clip to hold the wire on the inside of the persons jacket of whatever.
Since some people feel that they don't have the time to allow proper placement of mic and wire (because they are so important, have done interviews before and they KNOW that there will be no noise issue) I prefer to use the Sennheiser clips and don't worry about whether it shows or not. They don't worry about on TV so why should I? (But that's just me)

Could you tape the wire to the jacket on the inside so the cable is not pulling? I just got a vampire clip but haven't had a chance to try it.

Don Bloom May 19th, 2013 12:57 PM

Re: C100 audio
 
Gaffers tapes is great and will hold almost anything together. I once set a broken arm with gaff tape. I even performed brain surgery and used gaff tape to close up with. ;-)

Well, I didn't really do either of those things but I have used gaff tape to hold cable to everything including the inside of a jacket. Gotta press it hard though so it stays in place but it does work.

O|O
\--/

Kathy Smith May 19th, 2013 01:32 PM

Re: C100 audio
 
Great. I am going to try the vampire clip with the gaffers tape.
THANK YOU

Kathy Smith May 19th, 2013 02:41 PM

Re: C100 audio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom (Post 1796184)
Kathy,
I don't know anything about the Canon C100 but as to your question about setting up a broadcast loop on your sanken mic, this is the clip that virtually every news group uses (at least here in Chicago and most all I've ever seen). Sennheiser MZQ 22 Double Tie Clip MZQ-222 B&H Photo Video
I've got them also and even though it says double mic of course you can use one and have an extra piece in case one gets lost. It is made for looping. I use Countryman EMW mics almost 100% but have used many others (except Sankens) in these clips and they work great.

Don,

I was looking at the clip you suggested. The clip that comes with Sanken mic is also made for looping ( see it here SANKEN MICROPHONE CO .,LTD. | Product [ COS-11D-* ]) but when I loop it, it sticks out of clothing and looks ugly. Does the Sennheiser clip lay flat against the clothing when looped?

Matt Davis May 22nd, 2013 02:12 AM

Re: C100 audio
 
Hi Kathy, back from Turkey - here's a little video knocked up in 15 minutes that shows how to lace the Sanken clip:


Not exactly my best work, but hopefully demonstrates the point. :-D


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