C100 audio
 

I am having issues with audio because probably I don't know what I am doing. I have a nice mic (Sanken COS -11D) but I can't get decent sound. This is probably generic audio question not specific to C100. I changed mic sensitivity to -12db because I felt that the mic was very sensitive but I am not happy with the sound recording. I always hear this background sound like the third recording on this page https://soundcloud.com/mdmatv, I want to get what this person got in the second recording. Any clues how to achieve that?

Re: C100 audio
 

Hi Kathy,

you'll need to move into audio processing - 'grading for sound'.

The second track (oops, posted the singing toilet to the wrong account) has been through iZotope's Ozone -

iZotope Ozone 5 Complete Mastering System

which does a lot of clever things with multi-band compression, noise gates, exciters and so on.

So, I have a setting for my voice, and there are presets for male and female talky voiceovery audio which you can modify to taste. Ozone is meant for the final mastering of music, but it does nod towards voice.

It won't make bad audio good, but it can get you a nice result from properly recorded material - so the difference between the third and the second track is simply processing.

There's also a point at which you need to know if you're better served by a short shotgun, a large diaphragm condenser mic or a lavalier. Lavaliers are the least 'exciting' but thanks to the inverse square law of sound:

Inverse-square law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the closer a mic is, the more rejection of room tone you get, BUT it's thin and weedy and needs a little help in post. Use a shotgun mic, richer sound but odder accoustic pickup in my hands. Only sound engineers seem to have the knack.

Re: C100 audio
 

Matt,

Thanks. I was looking at izotope RX. Now specific question about C100 and the Sanken mic. Do you find it very sensitive? I changed trimming on the camera to -12db but perhaps that's a bad idea.

Re: C100 audio
 

I'm currently sticking to 0dB - it seems fine.

There was a trick on other cameras that I hope Canon adopts in the C100 in the firmware upgrade: Essentially, you can feed the same mic into both channels using different gain settings, So, if you had a particularly strident contributor that swung from whisper to thunder and back again, you could nip the blown bits out in the edit and replace with the second channel turned down by -12 to -18 dB.

We don't have that. We have a limiter that will mop up the peaks, but it's a bit like fitting a rubber sheet. Yes, it's safe, but you really hope you won't actually need it.

And there's a tradition in the audio market that 'all audio knobs work at their best at the 12 O'Clock position' (in the middle). I'd check your level knob is at the mid point when set to 0dB, rather than having it cranked up to 7-10 and putting a -12dB pad on it.

Re: C100 audio
 

Thanks Matt, this is very helpful. Can Izotope Ozone 5 remove background noise/background hiss? I have recorded something and the levels are too low between -18 and -12 and I need to raise them but of course I am also raising the background noise.

Also sorry to ask this rather basic question but you are the only person I know that has the same mic as I do, how do you loop that mic? when I loop the way it is show on the photo on the Sanken's website, the cable always sticks out.

Re: C100 audio
 

I'd love to demonstrate this (having been taught by the mighty Rick Sarson) - however, must now depart to airport onto another shoot.

Briefly, no - Ozone is a finishing tool, and RX is a noise repair tool.

IIRC, there's a basic but good de-noiser in Adobe Audition which may be a cut down no-frills version of RX, though I have both (and I use the Audition version mostly).

Re: C100 audio
 

Thanks Matt. Have a nice shoot. Maybe when you are back you can demonstrate looping the mic?? Thanks again!

Re: C100 audio
 

Kathy,
I don't know anything about the Canon C100 but as to your question about setting up a broadcast loop on your sanken mic, this is the clip that virtually every news group uses (at least here in Chicago and most all I've ever seen). http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/815349-REG/Sennheiser_543653_MZQ_22_Double_Tie.htmlI've got them also and even though it says double mic of course you can use one and have an extra piece in case one gets lost. It is made for looping. I use Countryman EMW mics almost 100% but have used many others (except Sankens) in these clips and they work great.

Re: C100 audio
 

Thanks Don. Do you have an opinion on vampire clip?

Re: C100 audio
 

Yes, I love them especially with a mic like the Countryman EMW or a Tram50 which are both small flat pieces that virtually disappear when placed properly. HOWEVER...(here's where the big but comes into play) No way to make a loop so you need to be 110% sure of wire placement so you eliminate any chance of wire brushing on fabric and possibly causing a sound that is really hard to get rid of. when I did use (or do use) the vampire clips I actually use a similar type of clip to hold the wire on the inside of the persons jacket of whatever.
Since some people feel that they don't have the time to allow proper placement of mic and wire (because they are so important, have done interviews before and they KNOW that there will be no noise issue) I prefer to use the Sennheiser clips and don't worry about whether it shows or not. They don't worry about on TV so why should I? (But that's just me)

Re: C100 audio
 

Could you tape the wire to the jacket on the inside so the cable is not pulling? I just got a vampire clip but haven't had a chance to try it.

Re: C100 audio
 

Gaffers tapes is great and will hold almost anything together. I once set a broken arm with gaff tape. I even performed brain surgery and used gaff tape to close up with. ;-)

Well, I didn't really do either of those things but I have used gaff tape to hold cable to everything including the inside of a jacket. Gotta press it hard though so it stays in place but it does work.

O|O
\--/

Re: C100 audio
 

Great. I am going to try the vampire clip with the gaffers tape.
THANK YOU

Re: C100 audio
 

Don,

I was looking at the clip you suggested. The clip that comes with Sanken mic is also made for looping ( see it here SANKEN MICROPHONE CO .,LTD. | Product [ COS-11D-* ]) but when I loop it, it sticks out of clothing and looks ugly. Does the Sennheiser clip lay flat against the clothing when looped?

Re: C100 audio
 

Hi Kathy, back from Turkey - here's a little video knocked up in 15 minutes that shows how to lace the Sanken clip:


Not exactly my best work, but hopefully demonstrates the point. :-D

Re: C100 audio
 

Thanks so much Matt. This is great. I will give it a try.

Re: C100 audio
 

Found online this post and thought that this was interesting use of the rubber insulator that comes with Sanken.
Last post
Favorite mic for hiding under clothing - b-roll.net FORUM

Any opinions on this. Looks like a nice solution.

Re: C100 audio
 

Hi Don,

Can you show me how you loop using this particular clip?

Re: C100 audio
 

Sure,
After you place the wire thru the wire clip and attach it to the lapel clip take the wire and run it up thru the "corner" of the lapel clip in between the front of the lapel clip and the back. Take the mic cable and insert it into the cable clip on the end of the spring part of the clip in the opposite direction. IOW the first part of the mic cable is going UP and the 2nd part of the cable going thru the cable clip is going down.

Hope that's clear. I can't get a close enough pic to be able to show it clearly but it's a pretty easy thing. Up and down. Clip it on and set to go!

HTHs

Re: C100 audio
 

I am not sure if I understand. Sorry this is a second lav clip I've seen in my life. See attached image. Is this what you mean by wire clip and "corner" of the lapel clip?

Re: C100 audio
 

Very similar to the video I posted on the previous page. :-D

First loop (up) goes into the space at the end of the clip you use to attach the mic. It then loops down and clips into the bit at the other side, so the cable hangs DOWN (which makes it neater to thread).

My rushed video failed to show me twisting the mic around in the clip in order to make the up-loop lay flat. That's the trick - twist the wire to make the loops lay flat both on the up loop and the down loop. Ensure that, when you clip the whole thing to a lapel or shirt, that the cable naturally wants to hug the cloth and point the cable in the right direction. It's all in the twist.

Re: C100 audio
 

Kathy,
the "wire clip" in your photo is the "mic clip". That's where you put the microphone by removing both of the clips (only need one) push that over the cable by the mic capsule, squeeze it together and put back into the lapel clip. Now the cable is hanging down so take it UP and open the back of the clip by squeezing it like you were putting it on someone. Now the cable is looped from the mic into the corner of the lapel clip. Now take the cable and slip it into the loop of metal on the back of the lapel clip going in a downward direction. It looks like an "S" laying on it's side.
As Matt stated it's best to twist the cable a bit just to make sure it lays flat and doesn't want to "bunch" up.