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Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


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Old February 16th, 2014, 07:10 AM   #16
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Re: Cam-xiety

Thanks.

I would probably go for a C100 over a DSLR for the convenience of XLRs, etc-- it's a proper camcorder.

I researched all those other cams, and they came up short for various reasons. XF cams are missing some feature that I felt I wanted, can't remember what it was.

HPX250 was really on my radar, but read too many bad things about the lens, and the cost of P2. . .yikes.

I'm waiting 'til NAB time just to make sure nothing appealing comes out but I have a feeling nothing will.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 07:27 AM   #17
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Re: Cam-xiety

Josh I struggled with the same question for a while I ended up selling both my Sony EX1's after I got two C100's & never looked back. It's a mental shift that takes place, you need a lot of lenses to reproduce what the EX1 can do with a single lens but once I got use to images produced by the C100 I couldn't go back to the EX1. I do more weddings & corporates promotions but even for live stage events the C100 works you just need to plan well. I loved the EX1 is it's day but it's day has come and gone, all my clients want the creamy large sensor look now.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 07:41 AM   #18
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Re: Cam-xiety

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Originally Posted by Josh Bass View Post
...I'm waiting 'til NAB time just to make sure nothing appealing comes out but I have a feeling nothing will.
NAB is too late for summer season, I like more earlier purchasing of the new camera.
PMW200 is nice, EX1 is still most used camera in lowpriced documentaries in broadcast (yes it is over but price is low). C100 as B cam is a little expensive, but nice .-) .

If you will shoot with two cameras then there is no problem with two C100 or similar cameras, if you will work as only one person then you must be more careful with selection your tool.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 08:30 AM   #19
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Re: Cam-xiety

We'll have to agree to disagree about "it's day being over."

If you enjoy struggling with focus and zoom limitations on gigs that absolutely do not benefit from it (guy at podium for 8 hours, etc.), that is cool.

If a client requests shallow DOF, I shall make it happen. But many times the cam choice is left up to me, so I will go small sensor. If I can only have one cam (my plan right now) it will be the more versatile cam (i.e. greater depth of field/zoom).

If I make the money spent on it back in a timely manner, I will consider a second, shallow DOF cam for versatility. Although you have to keep in mind with something like a C100 (even a DSLR), having a 17-35 (or whatever the wide one is), 24-105/24-70, and 70-200 (i.e. lenses to cover a wide range) will cost a small fortune.

Trust me, I like the look too, but I have to be realistic and it just doesn't fit with the majority of what I do, and I'm not one to force it to work for gigs where it's not necessary, appropriate, and may even be a hinderance (sometimes you want everything in focus).
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Old February 16th, 2014, 10:14 AM   #20
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Re: Cam-xiety

Josh, after reading this thread, I am wondering what your budget is?
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Old February 16th, 2014, 03:14 PM   #21
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Re: Cam-xiety

It's somewhat flexible, but really looking to get cam, cards, batts, and a bag for around $5000 or less. So the upcoming PX270? Nope. PMW200/300? Nope.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 03:17 PM   #22
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Re: Cam-xiety

I use the EX1r and the c100 for weddings. I am always amazed at the image quality I get from the EX1r and I would happily buy another updated EX1r type camera. The C100 gives me a capability and Shallow DOF I never had with the EX. The combination is ideal for me. I'm still struggling with picture profiles for the C100. WDR gives me great DR but color seems to be off too often. Paul Joy's CINEHD is wonderful but too saturated and reduces DR.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 04:11 PM   #23
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Re: Cam-xiety

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...Now, some of that stuff would probably look cooler with shallow DOF, and the low light capabilities are always a help, but what worries me with the large sensor cams is, will I have that deep DOF when I need it? What is the feasibility of stopping down (f8, however far you can go without diffraction issues), and cranking the ISO to compensate, when needed?

I would also miss the zoom rocker capabilities on regular camcorders, as well as the zoom range (there are those 11x zooms made by a few folks but they come with all sorts of distortion and aperture issues).

I really do need an all-in-one cam, since it's dubious that I can justify buying A camera let alone two. The safe bet is a regular camcorder like the EX1r, but the image from that cam has never really wowed me. The C100 from what I"ve seen looks really nice, but again, all the above-mentioned issues.

I guess what I'm really getting at is: what are the realities of trying to use a large sensor cam for more ENG/EFP applications, and has anyone been doing this successfully, and if so what issues have you had, etc.?
Yes, you can used a large sensor cam for ENG, but with limitation - you have no zoom rocker (instead you will use DOF but this needs a good lens), you must pay for cam and three lenses (for basic set), one lens must have Image Stabilization for handheld use, sometimes you need a better EVF or LCD. C100 is nice (good ergonomic, ND filtres, XLR audio) but EX1r is more easier for this type of use. PMW150 is more cheap than PMW200, but your question is clear - you want to change your ENG cam for large sensor cam like C100. So try to rent the C100 cam before purchase.

For live events from tripod is better a regular ENG cam like EX1R because you can make a smooth zoom (with lanc controller or rocker) and you will have a longer zoom range (600mm vs 300mm is 20x vs. 10x zoom range, it depends on the ENG camera type). The rest is no problem.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 05:01 PM   #24
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Re: Cam-xiety

R54,644.71 is a bit tight for a C100 solution, you need about +/- R109,289.41 for a C100 setup with 3x lenses, media & batteries if you want to avoid production headaches. If I mainly did conferences & live events I'd get 3x Canon XF300 cameras, after being a Sony EX1 owner/fan for many years skin tones just look better to me on the Canon, Sony has a very "redish" look. As with all things there is different cameras for different jobs.
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Old February 17th, 2014, 09:21 AM   #25
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Re: Cam-xiety

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Originally Posted by Josh Bass View Post
It's somewhat flexible, but really looking to get cam, cards, batts, and a bag for around $5000 or less. So the upcoming PX270? Nope. PMW200/300? Nope.
That is pretty tight if you are talking about which camera is better than another or newer models. It would seem a used camera from the exisiting subjects (EX1r, XF300, AC-160, HM-600) would be your only option. The C100 with lens would be over your pricing. A used GH3 would be an alternative for an SDOF camera.

Waiting for NAB is only going to push you above your budget. :) The new GH4 is looking pretty nice.
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Old February 17th, 2014, 09:26 AM   #26
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Re: Cam-xiety

Im keeping hope alive that a magic $2000 cam that can switch sensor sizes comes out by april. Shut up it could happen. I said shut it.
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Old February 17th, 2014, 09:44 AM   #27
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Re: Cam-xiety

That is my dream as well. I sent an e-mail to Canon about the possibility of a "windowed mode" on the C300/100 that would accept a B4 2/3" zoom lens. They didn't say shut it but they did not say great idea either.
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Old February 17th, 2014, 06:20 PM   #28
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Re: Cam-xiety

As I understand it the GH cams have that mode.
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