c100 users enlighten me from the 60d - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems

Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 1st, 2013, 09:33 AM   #16
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: York, England
Posts: 1,323
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Goyette View Post
When you get used to the footage from the c300/c100, you'll have a hard time even looking at what comes off of those other cameras you named.
TBH - this is what I'm afraid of, mixing of C100 and DSLR footage together in the same scenes.

Mixing them on different scenes shouldn't be too much of a problem, but that's a decision I'll be able to make this coming week when the C100 arrives and I do my own testing. It's great to see what other people do, but there's really no substitute for doing your own tests.

I recall doing a similar test between the XF300 and DSLRs and was amazed at the extra detail the XF300 had, so much so that it required adding a small gaussian blur in post to make them match!

The other thing I'm looking to test is the real low light capability vs 5D3. It's going to be an interesting week.
__________________
Qualified UAV Pilot with CAA PFAW
Aerial Photo / Aerial Video | Corporate Video Production
Dave Partington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2013, 11:10 AM   #17
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,189
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

In many ways, even my XL-h1 is a better match to the c300 than my dslrs... Except in lowlight situations where you don't even get an image. I had high hopes for the bmpcc as a b-camera, but I'm not sure the raw workflow is worth it, as the color response is so bad in prores mode. I'm thinking the rx10 might be an option, but if not the c100 really is a bargain especially when paired with a ninja.
Barry Goyette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2013, 12:39 PM   #18
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,562
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

If you have to mix C100 and DSLR, you'll be grading the C100 back to only the best that the DSLR can achieve - lower detail, blacks that fall off a cliff, and you may have to do some 'skin detail reduction' on the C100 to approach what the Canon DSLRs do on skin.

Dave nailed it regarding the C100's passing similarity to the XF305 - the imager is the same as the C300, it's basically a 4K sensor downsampling to 1920x1080 on a 2:1 ratio: every pixel has two greens, a red and a blue, so it's absolutely on par with 3 chip cameras (unlike other single-sensor cameras).

The C100 has oodles more detail, far better tonality, a wide dynamic range, faultless audio, superb exposure and focus tools, and is so far beyond the DSLR look (if your clients like sharp, colourful video) that comparisons are a little strained.

The DSLRs had a 'film look' based on a *lack* of detail, a certain grain structure (!), a sort of Super16 look.

You're also going to work a lot harder with DSLRs to get what you want. In good hands and with a narrative setup, yes - it's great so long as you have control. For a low profile reportage look, yes - it knocks your socks off. But C100 is still a better image, especially for Corporate & Event, which is where it's aimed. I mostly mix my C100 'hero' footage with Sony EX1/3 B-Roll.

It was definitely worth it for me.
__________________
Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro
EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6
Matt Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2013, 12:42 PM   #19
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: KLD, South Africa
Posts: 983
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

Besides the amazing image quality, ease of focus, use & long battery life the main reason I invested into the C100 is for it's low light sensitivity, oh and the built in ND filters pay for themselves. It's literally insane how good the C100 is in low light as a wedding/event shooter this trumps all other features for me. I sold my Arrilite 750 Plus lights & now only use small LEDs when it gets really dark.

The C100 is 5x more expensive than say a 70D & no the image quality is not 5x better but having spent the money (which I didn't have) on C100's I don't regret it one bit. Remember the C100 is not a magic pill if you suck on a 60D you will suck on a C100 & yes you do need lenses. The C100 simply offers professional redundant reliability for paying jobs. Lastly I'll also add that I have booked a few big corporate clients simply because they loved the "look" the C100 offers (aka quality). I still have my 60D's in my bag as back-up bodies but when I use them for cut away shots it's really hard to think that I ever used them as my main cams.
Nicholas de Kock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2013, 05:57 AM   #20
New Boot
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Yigo Guam
Posts: 18
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

If you still cant see the difference, i dont know.

James Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2013, 07:06 AM   #21
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,189
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

You might also want to search Jonathan Yi c300. He did an insightful and humorous comparison of that camera versus the 5d mark2 when it first came out that was one of the best arguments against dslr's that I've seen.

Last edited by Barry Goyette; December 2nd, 2013 at 07:12 AM. Reason: need glasses!
Barry Goyette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2013, 09:48 AM   #22
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 71
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

A comparison I did when I first got my C100


I can't even stand to use my 550D anymore for video it's that much better.
And as people stated before, battery life, ND filters, XLR input, ergonomics, low light, I could go on and on.
Yes, if you use it for a living, it's worth it very much.
And as someone else stated, one reason I don't like to use my DSLR as B Cam as you have to grade your C100 footage to look crappy like the DSLR.

This video was shot with the C100 ( wide shots ) and 550 on the closeups.


You can see the detail in the wide shots, and the soft DSLR look when you get close.
I WISH I could afford two C100s.

Last edited by Pete Bauer; December 2nd, 2013 at 06:44 PM. Reason: curse filter
Dan McGuckin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2013, 01:21 PM   #23
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: York, England
Posts: 1,323
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

I've just started my week long evaluation of a C100, but as usual the weather here in the UK is cold, damp and miserable, so I've only done internal shots so far. Tomorrow will hopefully be different.

Either way, I'm noticing the C100 is substantially sharper than then 5D3, even when the 5D3 is sharpened in post. I'm not yet convinced that the C100 is substantially less noisy though. Still playing with Wide DR and Log and we'll see where that all goes.

What I do know is that it's both sharper and less noisy than my XF cameras!
__________________
Qualified UAV Pilot with CAA PFAW
Aerial Photo / Aerial Video | Corporate Video Production
Dave Partington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2013, 05:13 PM   #24
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,189
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

You may not find the c100 to be less noisy. The 5d has a ton of noise reduction applied, which is one of the reasons the image is so soft. But the character of the noise in the c100 image should be finer and less prone to the blocky compressed noise that you see on your 5d. One looks more like film. The other more like " digital".
Barry Goyette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2013, 05:38 PM   #25
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,064
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McGuckin View Post
And as someone else stated, one reason I don't like to use my DSLR as B Cam as you have to grade your C100 footage to look crappy like the DSLR.
I wouldn't use "dslr" as a term for everything that looks crappy, here's a video of a dslr rivaling the c100 sharpness:
and here is one that shows how good it can look:
or here

It's not because you have used a crappy "dslr" that all dslr's are like this, it just means you didn't use the right one :)

But it needs to be said that the c100 does tick many boxes but it comes at a premium price, like we are used from Canon. They start with very expensive camera's that have it all (like a c300 or 1dc and then start crippling everything down the line where the cheapest ones get crippled most, preferably in image quality.

But then again you have people with crappy 550d's with one crappy 30mm lens making something like below, something many c100/300 owners will never manage to achieve and that hasn't anything to do with the camera.


Last edited by Pete Bauer; December 2nd, 2013 at 06:50 PM. Reason: curse filter
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2013, 06:27 PM   #26
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: York, England
Posts: 1,323
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Goyette View Post
You may not find the c100 to be less noisy. The 5d has a ton of noise reduction applied, which is one of the reasons the image is so soft. But the character of the noise in the c100 image should be finer and less prone to the blocky compressed noise that you see on your 5d. One looks more like film. The other more like " digital".
You are of course correct, though recording both a Ninja 2 as well as internally gives me a chance to see both of them without their internal codecs.

The things that stand out so far are:

1) The C100 is without doubt a lot sharper than the 5D3.

2) The C100 is still 'as noisy' as the 5D3 at higher ISO settings, but it's a more even noise whereas at ISO8000 this 5D3 exhibits some pattern noise. I haven't checked the other 5D3 I have here but I suspect it will be similar. While the noise from the C100 is much more even (no patterns that I've seen yet), there is quite a bit of chroma noise, not just luma noise. I'm playing with Neat Video to see how well it cleans up and I'm having some mixed results. No matter, I have a few more days of playing before it has to go back and I have three paid shoots this week that I may get chance to try it in real world situations.

3) Clearly both cameras do some de-noising when using their internal codecs

4) At high ISO, both Wide DR and c-log seems to get really noisy. I suppose that's to be expected as there's no free lunch for the extra DR, but it's still disappointing :(
__________________
Qualified UAV Pilot with CAA PFAW
Aerial Photo / Aerial Video | Corporate Video Production
Dave Partington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2013, 09:00 PM   #27
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 351
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

I have no experience with the C100. I do, however, recommend the review of the C100 by the StillMotion folks in Filmmaker Magazine, and the related "Pulse" video and the related BTS video. While it is true that Canon sponsored the shoot, the Still Motion folks seem like straight-up folks that would not tarnish their reputations by saying things they did not believe. Who else had the NFL hire them based on a wedding video?

They explain why the C100 has more appeal to them and their style of shooting than the C300.

Last edited by Richard D. George; December 2nd, 2013 at 09:31 PM.
Richard D. George is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2013, 07:38 AM   #28
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 71
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

Quote:

It's not because you have used a crappy "dslr" that all dslr's are like this, it just means you didn't use the right one :)
I guess I should have phrased it better, as I loved my 550D for video before I had the C100.
Maybe crappy could have been replaced with - muddy or punchy next to the C100.
Actually my best film to date ( I think ) was done with the 550D and Sigma 30mm



Could it have been better with the C100? Probably. Would any of my customers, or my wife, be able to tell the difference? Probably not. But the process of making the film would have been better for me, the camera man, and me, the editor due to the ease of C100 of filming over the 550D, and ease of editing the codec.
Although my wife hates the "flat" look of C-Log and loves the punchy muddy 550D. *Sigh*
Dan McGuckin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2013, 11:46 AM   #29
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: West Orange, NJ, U.S.
Posts: 163
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

From a purely ease-of-use aspect, here are my musings as a run-and-gunner of weddings;

Weddings are always on the move - from inside dark places to outside in the sun. C100 = built in NDs which negate the need to fumble in my bag, fish out an ND, screw it on the front and miss a couple shots in the meantime. Same for the reverse of having to take it off. Small thing? Maybe, but I can't stand having to work at NDs as everything moves back and forth from setting to setting, and light intensity to light intensity.

Weddings are way too dark sometimes. C100 = low light stress pretty much gone.

Not sure about the 60D (if it has a time limit for recording), but coming from the 5D...C100 = no recording limit so I don't have to worry about stopping and starting in the middle of a ceremony or speeches.

Weddings, most of the time, means I can't control light as much as I'd like so I've always had to deal with contrasty scenes which always ticked me off when I had to try and work post-magic on footage. C100 = much greater dynamic range allowing me to capture more of what my mind/creative musings are looking for in an image without having to worry so much about all the different light sources nailing my scenes.

Sound at weddings? C100 = lots of input options, headphones, sound levels.

5D vs. C100 footage...yeah clients, my wife and others may not notice or care about the difference (which is real), but I see it and I notice and I care. The C100 gets me a lot closer to what I think I should be delivering and makes me more comfortable in my work and finished product.

C100 = Dual recording which means peace of mind as I shoot my clients' once-in-lifetime (hopefully) event.

Far more manual controls right in my hand that make using the camera a breeze. Better ergonomics. Able to use my already purchased lenses with the camera.

Caveat; I've only used the camera in corporate settings thus far, but absolutely cannot wait to use it once weddings start up again for me here. All the headaches (as far as cameras go) that I experience shooting weddings are really going to be diminished.

Ease of use, controls, low light ability, incredible dynamic range which is still blowing me away, small footprint, crisper image, dual recording....all, without a doubt, make the cost worth it for me.
Mike Hammond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 04:56 PM   #30
Tourist
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: PL
Posts: 2
Re: c100 users enlighten me from the 60d

Hello. Here is my comparision between 60d and c100. In my opinion the different is huge in all of terms: sharpness, noise, dynamic range (especially in low light)
Edgar Nowak is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:25 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network