C100 and Ninja2 in camera noise reduction test (cine1, wdr, canon-log gamma, 25p,25i) at DVinfo.net

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Old March 10th, 2014, 07:07 AM   #1
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C100 and Ninja2 in camera noise reduction test (cine1, wdr, canon-log gamma, 25p,25i)

The NoiseReduction in camera test (NR0, NR2, NR4),
AVCHD vs Ninja2 in poor light scene.


Samyang 24mm/f1.5, a very poor light, ISO850, ISO1600, ISO4000, internal AVCHD+external Ninja2 recording.

Avid Symphony at postproduction, I was working with these versions of clips (in this order):
1. AVCHD in XDCAM long GOP HQ 35Mbps 420 codec
2. AVCHD in Avid DNxHD185 (422, 8bit. I-Frame only) codec
3. Ninja2 version in Avid DNxHD185 (true 422, 8bit, I-Frame only) codec
4. repeat "1." for better visual contrast with "3."


All these codecs are present with NR0, NR2 and NR4 versions, with three levels of ISO. There were NO COLOR CORRECTIONs at post, I did only a minor black setup (with master pedestal) for the same start point in black and I increased (a lot) the gain level for canon-log clips with low ISO, nothing else (in higher ISO there was no need for such increasing level of gain in post, the canon-log result is much better in this case).


The result was exported in DNxHD185 (422, 8bit) and for vimeo this master file was transcoded in Sorenson Squeeze to H264, with 15Mbps in slow (high quality) rendering. I sugest to download the orig H264 file (DNxHD 185Mbps version is the best, but it is too big file for vimeo).

C100 has a higher noise level in black parts of pictures, the higher ISO level helps with this so the best result has cine1 gamma, NR2 and ISO4000 level version of clips (in this case of scene with a poor light). Also different gamma have a different noise levels (and 25p version is much sharper and better than 25i version).
In the picture is also a small PIP with the 400pct magnification which helps to see the differences (also in chroma subsampling 420 vs. 422 on the test chart). ABB was made for all different ISO parts. Chroma subsampling differences are also visible for example on the brown paw of the rabbit (22:43).

Thanks to Pavel LOPOLO Jirak for lending the Ninja2 recorder.

(the best part is at 19:00, the worse is at 18:00).

Last edited by Pavel Sedlak; March 10th, 2014 at 09:15 AM.
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Old March 10th, 2014, 08:33 AM   #2
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Re: C100 and Ninja2 in camera noise reduction test (cine1, wdr, canon-log gamma, 25p,

Did you ABB between ISO changes?
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Old March 10th, 2014, 09:20 AM   #3
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Re: C100 and Ninja2 in camera noise reduction test (cine1, wdr, canon-log gamma, 25p,

Yes. As I wrote above the ABB was made for all different ISO parts.

The best part is at 19:00 where AVCHD looks really nice and Ninja2 is also ok with the better chroma subsampling. 25i version looks much worse (at 17:00).
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Old March 10th, 2014, 09:52 AM   #4
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Re: C100 and Ninja2 in camera noise reduction test (cine1, wdr, canon-log gamma, 25p,

Here are some printscreens from my notebook screen (from H264 and orig QT DNxHD185)
for Ninja2 with in camera NR:

http://www.videoproduce.cz/images/00...sec_origQT.tif
http://www.videoproduce.cz/images/00...sec_origQT.tif
http://www.videoproduce.cz/images/00...sec_origQT.tif - the winner for QT version (NR4)
http://www.videoproduce.cz/images/00...30sec_H264.tif
http://www.videoproduce.cz/images/00...07sec_H264.tif - the winner for H264 version (NR2)
http://www.videoproduce.cz/images/00...40sec_H264.tif

(at the name of files is time, all are in 25p, iso4000)

And Canon-log version in ISO2000 (NR2) from the orig QT
http://www.videoproduce.cz/images/00...NR2_OrigQT.tif
and ISO4000
http://www.videoproduce.cz/images/01...NR2_origQT.tif

also one from the best - cine1 (with cine1 col. matrix), 25p, ISO4000, very nice noise and also colors
http://www.videoproduce.cz/images/01...lmatrix_QT.tif

I hope that this test helps not only to me.

Last edited by Pavel Sedlak; March 10th, 2014 at 03:34 PM. Reason: winner..., log version
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Old March 12th, 2014, 11:47 AM   #5
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Re: C100 and Ninja2 in camera noise reduction test (cine1, wdr, canon-log gamma, 25p,

My CP cine1 (with cine1 col. matrix) and cine1 with black gamma adjustment (col.matrix normal4 or cine1).

1. CP Cine1:
(quick gamma a WB CP menu)
Gamma L5, M5, H5, WB 0,0,0,0

(fine CP menu)
gamma cine1
black (Master Pedestal) 0 (*for lowlight, it is the best to set the black level with WF monitor ON)
black gamma 0,0,0
sharpness -5 (all others 0)
NR2
color matrix normal4 or cine1 (*adjust color gain for good level of saturation)
color gain +28
all rest set to 0 or off.



2. CP Cine1 with black gamma adjusted (good for lowlight)
(quick gamma a WB CP menu)
Gamma L9,M5,H5 (you can set 5,5,5 and correct master pedestal to -2)
WB 0,0,0

(fine CP menu)
gamma cine1
black (Master Pedestal) -4
black gamma: Level+16, Range+4, Point+3
sharpness -5
NR2
color matrix cine1 is better for lowlight than normal4 (*less yellow, in test was normal4)
gain +28 (+20)
all rest set to 0 or off



3. Quick color correction for Canon-log CP (Canon-log color matrix)
(quick gamma a WB CP menu)
Shift A3 (red), M4 (magenta)

(fine CP menu)
color matrix - color gain 0 (or -10)
color phase -2
R-G +21

- this helps with greenish colour, I did no color correction at post in this test.
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Old March 18th, 2014, 12:58 AM   #6
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Re: C100 and Ninja2 in camera noise reduction test (cine1, wdr, canon-log gamma, 25p,

Thanks Pavel, very interesting your test, and I'm thinking to buy a Ninja Blade but I do not know if it's worth investesc.E and AVCHD possible to have the C100 compared to Ninja 422
I need a monitor control C100 and thought Ninja Blade is a very good monitor and a recorder's and a very good codec.
not exactly thrilled by the display of the C100 and money on an upgrade Dual pixel, better put some money and get a Nija Blade.Have you had problems with C100 Ninja 2, I mean the blocks while shooting .. and other things like that.

Thanks
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Old March 18th, 2014, 02:45 AM   #7
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Re: C100 and Ninja2 in camera noise reduction test (cine1, wdr, canon-log gamma, 25p,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Docea Marius View Post
... I'm thinking to buy a Ninja Blade but I do not know if it's worth investesc....I need a monitor control C100 and thought Ninja Blade is a very good monitor and a recorder's and a very good codec.
....Have you had problems with C100 Ninja 2, I mean the blocks while shooting .. and other things like that.

Thanks
I also don't know if the Atomos Blade is worth the investment, but you can look at reviews (if the weight, balance and the quality are ok with C100 for your type of work). I already have the Alphatron EVF, but the control monitor on the right place is also a nice thing.

I had only borrowed the Atomos, but HDMI cables are not the best way for connecting camera and recorder (much better is HD-SDI output), it's an unreliable way for connecting these devices.
But ProResHQ or DNxHD185 files are much better in black areas of pictures, if you will record also internally for backup then everything will be ok.

But not all people see these small differences in quality, you can still live without Ninja2, but if you will present your work at big screens in art cinemas or if you will make a commercial for broadcast or if you will need the best quality in resulting H264 file (for movie festivals) or needs big color corrections for canon-log gamma then Ninja2 or N.Blade help you to get these great results.
(*I made this test for my friend which want the C100 for art documentaries purposes.)

If you download the orig file (3GB, H264 at 15Mbps) from my test, you will see these quality differences in a clear way.

Last edited by Pavel Sedlak; March 18th, 2014 at 08:10 AM. Reason: *
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Old March 18th, 2014, 05:16 AM   #8
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Re: C100 and Ninja2 in camera noise reduction test (cine1, wdr, canon-log gamma, 25p,

Ok,thanks Pavel
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