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Old December 26th, 2014, 05:15 PM   #1
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c100 displaying inaccurate colors

Not sure whats going on bust some colors on my c100 are not accurate. Particularly the color teal, its showing as blue. i've done both a custom white balance and black balance. Anyone have any ideas about whats going on? most colors are fine its just certain ones.
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Old December 26th, 2014, 06:38 PM   #2
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

I've found the C100's LCD to be quite inaccurate in terms of showing you the actual colors of what you're recording. I will often shoot something and then when I play it on my calibrated broadcast monitor in my office it will look quite different. I was able to do is hook up my Atomos Ninja Blade to the C100 and then try to adjust the C100 to look as close to what I saw on the Ninja's screen. The Ninja Blade has been calibrated to Rec 709 using the Atomos calibration tool so it's a good reference. However, I will say that I've really just had to learn the quirks of the C100's screen so that I know that if someone's face looks green on the LCD then that won't necessarily show up in the final image. I will often check the viewfinder to see how it looks there, and if I think I've got my shot close to what I'm looking for then I'll go with it. I've also noticed that the LCD screen on the C100 almost always shows the image as looking a bit darker than it actually is. I've learn to trust my zebras and waveform and also keep in mind that I will likely see a brighter image later on than what I'm seeing in the LCD.

If you have the option of using an external monitor that will be a big help. I don't usually use my Ninja Blade unless I need to record to ProRes because it's fairly bulky, but if you find a small monitor that can be calibrated then you may want to use the Cinevate Universal Mount to attach it to the 1/4 20 hole on the top handle. If you don't want to use an external monitor then I would just learn the quirks of the LCD in terms of judging color and then use your zebras and WFM to help with exposure.
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Old December 26th, 2014, 06:44 PM   #3
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

Michael thanks for the input. Inaccurate colors are actually being recorded that way. Teal is actual showing up as blue on the monitor and on the final product.
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Old December 26th, 2014, 06:49 PM   #4
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

I don't think I've ever experienced that before. I'm not sure what could be causing that but perhaps someone else in the forum has had a similar experience.
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Old December 26th, 2014, 07:44 PM   #5
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

Are you getting the inaccurate colors under different lighting conditions and with preset or auto white balance? The reason I ask is because the Auto and preset white balances adjust along the red, blue, and magenta scales, while Custom white balance ONLY balances along the red and blue. I believe some color issues like you describe popped up early on in the C300. Personally I had to tweak the detailed WB settings in my picture profiles to get the color accurate with C100 WDR.
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Old December 26th, 2014, 08:16 PM   #6
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

I've never had any inaccurate colors in actual recording. But the display screen is about 500K too "cool".
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Old December 26th, 2014, 10:14 PM   #7
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

Scott you are definitely onto something. The teal color is more accurate with a pre-set which surprised me. its not perfect, but better. I thought that the custom white balance was always the better option. Even under controlled lighting, its turning the teal blue.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 01:52 AM   #8
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Lewis View Post
Not sure whats going on bust some colors on my c100 are not accurate. Particularly the color teal, its showing as blue. i've done both a custom white balance and black balance. Anyone have any ideas about whats going on? most colors are fine its just certain ones.
I'm experiencing the same thing, teal turns into blue, and I have not found any workaround on Camera. hopefully Canon will address that issue with a firmware.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 10:16 AM   #9
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

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Originally Posted by Kevin Lewis View Post
Scott you are definitely onto something. The teal color is more accurate with a pre-set which surprised me. its not perfect, but better. I thought that the custom white balance was always the better option. Even under controlled lighting, its turning the teal blue.
There's some good threads here on DVInfo about the issues with white balancing the C100 and C300. I remember one thread actually mentioning the blue to teal issue (but on a C300). Wish I had saved all the links when I was researching.

My issue was a slight greenish tint on footage. Setting the custom WB matrix in the CP helped fix it. I had also assumed Custom WB was always going to give me the best but now I know better and will adjust which method I used based on how pure or polluted the light source is.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 01:20 PM   #10
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

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Originally Posted by Tim Bakland View Post
I've never had any inaccurate colors in actual recording. But the display screen is about 500K too "cool".
I've found this on C300 and C100. At least 500k if not a bit more too blue.

FWIW, the OLED display on the new C100 Mark II looks very good and much more accurate. Wasn't a controlled situation when I saw it but I did see it right next to a C300 display at Photo Plus.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 10:34 PM   #11
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

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Originally Posted by Kevin Lewis View Post
Teal is actual showing up as blue on the monitor and on the final product.
Try small color test with a color test chart - start with normal3 gamma (+normal3 color matrix), go on with cine1 gamma, wdr gamma and log gamma (with Kelvin WB).

Cyan color is the best with normal3 and cine1, with wdr and log has more blue and less green color, also yellow color change.

If you really need good cyan color then try used cine1 gamma (also at daylight with normal3 color matrix and -4 saturation) or secondary color correction at post for wdr or log gamma.
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 07:19 PM   #12
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

Pavel, I tried your suggestion, there was slight improvement but the color is still off. I wonder if shooting to an external recorder will solve the problem, since I can use a higher bit rate and color space. Thoughs on this anyone?
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Old January 8th, 2015, 03:48 PM   #13
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

Shooting several dance recitals and I experience this in Cinema mode. However for me it's more of a pink/purple dresses coming out as blue. It has been a nightmare matching to my Canon XLh1 which renders the colors more accurately. Could this be a CMOS vs. CCD issue? I don't know. This appears the same on internal AVCHD footage and on ProRes footage on my Ninja Blade so I don't think it is caused by the color depth of the codec. FWIW.

I shoot in cinema mode for the most dynamic range as the lighting of the recitals is constantly going up and down and I have to ride the iris. Cinema mode just gives me more room if I miss something.
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Old January 8th, 2015, 04:29 PM   #14
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Re: c100 displaying inaccurate colors

Yes, at wdr and canon-log gamma curves cyan color looks more blue. XLH1 use normal3 or cine1 gamma (you can make the same setting for the C100).

I shoot with c-log gamma curve and color matrix correction (I hope that it is G-R -21, less green), but cyan (purple or yellow) color still needs a secondery color correction.

That is right with canon, but I like C100 colors .-) .

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from 00:50 is all shots with log gamma, all nice interiors with great colors (it is free time quick work, no tripod and sometime less sharp .-) )
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