4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems

Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 14th, 2015, 05:15 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 153
4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

To test the newly released 4K Canon C300 Mark II, particularly it's latitude and 15 stop dynamic range, face detection focusing and C-log profile, I shot this short mostly improvised piece a few days ago.

Camera was mounted on a DJI Ronin gimbal stabliser, so face detection was activated in almost every shot. Only one lens was used - a Tokina 11-16mm. Second time to use the camera and first time to film on the Ronin so a lot to learn...!


It was shot in C-log so graded afterwards using Lumetri in Premiere Pro. Here is a comparison:


What do you think? Any tips/feedback etc greatly appreciated.
__________________
Canon C300 Mk2 x 2, Rotolight Anova Pro and Neos, Ronin Gimbal, Phantom 4 Pro UAV www.danthecameraman.co.uk

Last edited by Dan Parkes; October 14th, 2015 at 05:16 PM. Reason: grammar!
Dan Parkes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2015, 07:17 PM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,189
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

So, after a summer of watching a few englishmen take this camera out and shoot Clog2 on dreary days (I'm looking at you, Bloom), the sun finally comes out and you, Mr. Parkes decide to shoot CLog.

:-)

Actually...thanks...I've really been interested in seeing how the old log on the new camera looks compared to the original camera. It does appear that it's handling the highlights better and it looks rather more gradeable than the original. That last shot is just dropddead gorgeous...(even with some nasty highlights in the log footage.

You're asking for advice..not sure why...nice looking piece. If I had to nit pick...occasionally the shadows are a bit heavy...especially in the alleyway scenes...and the overly red grade is turning your sidewalks and sky's purple....that stuck out to me....But the skintones look great...which is what's important.

It seems like it's a tad over sharpened in a few places...not sure if you're doing that or Youtube is...but I could see some telltale halo's around his face and in the trees in that first set of shots on the bench...

Thanks again for taking the time...and nice to see what the original CLog is capable of in a pretty challenging situation...
__________________
Barry
http://www.barrygoyette.com
Barry Goyette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2015, 05:44 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 153
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

Thanks for the feedback Barry, I really appreciate that.

Yes Clog was the first test as I also want to look at matching it with other cameras such as the C300 Mark I and C100 etc and this seems like the logical route. Next up will be Clog 2! I hope to do a test later today.

I'm not overly happy with the grade either -but I think this could also be due to the fact that as we started in sunshine I simply set the white balance to daylight and left it on that. The shots on the bench were in fact the last shots we filmed by which time we had lost a lot of light (not to mention energy which explains why the Ronin is not very good either!). I do wish I had done a custom white balance at that point, but as it was only me on the Ronin that may have been slightly difficult...

By the way, there was no form of lighting, not even a reflector, used in any of the shots as it was physically impossible. So on that point -the fact it is all natural light - the camera did very well. Also the audio (voice over) was simply recorded with the actor in my car, much of it improvised, and I think sounds better than what we have done in our studio... so might look at doing that more often! So real seat-of-your-pants filmmaking here, so excited to see what this camera can do in a planned, controlled planned environment with more than one crew member!
__________________
Canon C300 Mk2 x 2, Rotolight Anova Pro and Neos, Ronin Gimbal, Phantom 4 Pro UAV www.danthecameraman.co.uk
Dan Parkes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2015, 10:13 AM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,189
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

Curious what you think about how Clog on the new cam handles Highlights (and shadows) compared with the older cameras. This has been a big question as we've really not seen much of the old log used with this camera. I've heard several Canon folks say that clog now has 15 stops...but I'm not sure how that translates to A) matching the older cameras, and B) overall image quality (specifically highlight handling).

To me it looks like the gradability is dramatically improved. Also, it appears that the Clog has a lot less noise in the shadows (it should). Is that what you're seeing?
__________________
Barry
http://www.barrygoyette.com
Barry Goyette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2015, 07:16 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 153
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

Hi Barry

C-log seemed great -although I believe you cannot achieve the 15 stops without using the new C-log2 which I am looking forward to trying when time permits (paid work getting in the way!).

In regards to the face detect function, I have put together a video below showing it in action, along with all the settings etc I was using. One regret is that I did not use shutter speed instead of the NDs to adjust for the bright environment. I am wondering that using ND6 on a Tokina is the cause of some colour shift.

__________________
Canon C300 Mk2 x 2, Rotolight Anova Pro and Neos, Ronin Gimbal, Phantom 4 Pro UAV www.danthecameraman.co.uk
Dan Parkes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2015, 08:09 AM   #6
Telecam Films
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 723
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

Dan,

Thanks for posting this. Which DJI Ronin Gimbal model did you use? Do you like it? I have seen mixed reviews but it looks like the newer version is much better.

Best,

T.
__________________
Thierry Humeau, DoP
TÚlÚcam Films
www.telecamfilms.com
Thierry Humeau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2015, 08:49 AM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 153
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

Hi Thierry

You are welcome! It is the standard/original Ronin (not the M version which I believe is for more light weight cameras). My first thoughts is that it is a fantastic piece of kit - I found it a lot easier than thought to balance and I think the remote control of the gimbal pan/tilt etc is brilliant. I still have a lot to learn to finesse the movement etc.

However I think it is better especially for long shots or extended use to either use a much more lightweight camera such as a DSLR or to use an EasyRig. A colleague of mine has a steadicam flyer so we are also looking at combining the two as well.
__________________
Canon C300 Mk2 x 2, Rotolight Anova Pro and Neos, Ronin Gimbal, Phantom 4 Pro UAV www.danthecameraman.co.uk
Dan Parkes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2015, 11:18 AM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,189
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

Hey Dan...Thanks again for this!

So I think the lutted version of this looks really sweet...obviously not as exciting or graded looking as your original edit...but it shows the original clog on this camera holding much better mid-shadows than the original...and the color to me..again...looks very Arri like with its slightly reddish skin tones, but overall very pleasing color rendition. I don't think the ND should impart any color cast to the image, Canon is well known in this area for it's expertise in IR filtration. (Engage the 10 stop ND next time an put this to the test.)

I think when Canon talks about the 15 stops in CLog (ok..let's really call it 14) they are hueing to the same principal that others have described various non-log presets on the original C300...they all had the same 12ish stops..but with gamma changes they stretch the mids and compress the shadows and highlights, which gives the impression of less DR.. in essence what we do when we grade, but that technically the DR is there. I 've been wondering how this would effect Clog, because theoretically it's a pretty flat curve...so if they are adding a couple of stops of DR...where is it going, and how does it differentiate with CLog2. (I think your video shows how it's different...more range in the shadows than the C300 with out the "lifting" that's happening in Clog2..of course it's hard to tell without a side by side...but that'll be my first test when mine arrives). Edit: I just noticed that the CLog is also pegging at 90-92 IRE as does CLog2...that's a definite change from the original Clog which extended beyond 100...

FWIW, by shooting at 160, you've effectively pushed most of the DR down into the shadows, which is already where Clog skews (can't find a chart online, but at the EVS seminar a few weeks ago, they had one that showed the distribution as being 1 less stop in the highlights and 1 more in the shadows than Clog2).

On the AF...It's interesting to see how much it struggles with moderately backlit situations even when the exposure on the face is fine...like it's really wanting to see the face be the brightest thing in the frame. I've been interested to see how 'racist" this camera is by trying out the feature on a particularly dark skinned friend...something tells me it's gonna have a hard time with her. My guess is the algorithm they use to identify faces is something that can be tweaked in firmware...so maybe we'll see some improvements or customizability in the future.

Onto the Ronin. My arms really ached after watching that long track down the beach promenade. I've done a number of shots half that long with the C300, and I'm screaming at the end. You might check out the Ready Rig GS... READY RIG - gimbal support and stabilization I've seen the guy demo it at a couple of trade shows and it really seems to be a great solution for ronin fatigue, while giving you almost the complete range of movement that the Ronin allows.
__________________
Barry
http://www.barrygoyette.com

Last edited by Barry Goyette; October 17th, 2015 at 11:34 AM. Reason: added bit about IRE..
Barry Goyette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2015, 11:53 AM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 153
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

You're welcome Barry and really appreciate the extra information and feedback.

About the 15-stop dynamic range , according to this article the C300 Mark II "actually has 12.3 stops (measured) of usable dynamic range." The comparative test charts were interesting. Not sure how much to rely on this particular source of information though.

https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-c300-...dynamic-range/

About shooting at iso 160 - in those conditions what would you recommend as the optimal settings? The native setting it 800 I believe, although only read about that a few days ago. In hindsight I wish I had changed the shutter speed to 1/100 and then used a relevant ND, but with mounting it on a Ronin etc and working completely by myself I was thinking on too many different levels (well that's my excuse anyway!). Plus the light was constantly changing from brilliant sunlight to cloud cover and next to nothing so having the lowest iso and just altering the ND/aperture seemed the easiest thing to do on the gimbal.

That Ready Rig looks great although similarly priced to the EasyRig. At the moment the most cost effective option I am looking at is a steadicam combination using an adaptor seen here:
DJI Ronin Steadicam Armpost Adaptor | CineMilled - DJI Ronin Accessories

Anyway, thanks again and I look forward to hearing what you think when your camera arrives.
__________________
Canon C300 Mk2 x 2, Rotolight Anova Pro and Neos, Ronin Gimbal, Phantom 4 Pro UAV www.danthecameraman.co.uk
Dan Parkes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2015, 08:48 AM   #10
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,189
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

You'll have to read through the comments section at Cinema5d to hear how I really feel about Sebastien's test . :-) In his bubble over there, 12.3 stops is perfectly fine...about the same as the FS7(although the .1 stop difference is highly suspect in my highly suspicious mind) and just a little less than the Amira....his test only looks at a small slice of what DR is in a camera (a specified noise level on a step wedge, ignoring color performance across the range, neutrality and umm...actual dynamic range), it's based on what he's decided is "usable"...which is that he's tuned his machine to match Arri's results and then extrapolated from there. That's all fine, except when one camera scores 12 stops he shouts "excellent", and then another comes along, gets 12.3 stops and he bellows "disappointing". A number of other reviewers (most notably Geoff Boyle who has been rating high end cameras for 20 years who has posted ecstatically about the c300 II on a number of occasions) have rated it at 14-15 stops. I'm comfortable with a solid 14 stops from what I've seen. Certainly in the exact same league as all the high end cameras ( and better than some) with the one exception being Alexa. Check out the radiant images test if you have an hour to burn...it shows about where the c300 sits in the spectrum (there's some grumbling that they setup the low end sonys wrong, but the C300 is certainly the equal of the F55, F65, Dragon, Varicam and just a smidge below the Arri's).

Canon states that ISO 800 is base for this camera. This is actually a gained setting but it gives a good balance between noise and dynamic range. I'd generally want to be about 1-2 stops either direction from this and it's rare on the C300 that I ever shot below 500 ( a lot of guys consider 500 base on that camera) -- I don't think I'd mess around with shutter too much as it's just going to make your footage look choppy. Frankly given the subject matter and lens choice, I don't see any harm with another stop or two of aperture. F4 isn't really letting the background go soft...and 5.6 or 8 will probably make most of the AF mistakes fade away. Certainly the 10 stops of ND on this camera was made for this situation, if you want to keep open to F4.
__________________
Barry
http://www.barrygoyette.com
Barry Goyette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2015, 12:47 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Burbank, CA 91502
Posts: 946
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Parkes View Post
You're welcome Barry and really appreciate the extra information and feedback.

About the 15-stop dynamic range , according to this article the C300 Mark II "actually has 12.3 stops (measured) of usable dynamic range." The comparative test charts were interesting. Not sure how much to rely on this particular source of information though.

https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-c300-...dynamic-range/

About shooting at iso 160 - in those conditions what would you recommend as the optimal settings? The native setting it 800 I believe, although only read about that a few days ago. In hindsight I wish I had changed the shutter speed to 1/100 and then used a relevant ND, but with mounting it on a Ronin etc and working completely by myself I was thinking on too many different levels (well that's my excuse anyway!). Plus the light was constantly changing from brilliant sunlight to cloud cover and next to nothing so having the lowest iso and just altering the ND/aperture seemed the easiest thing to do on the gimbal.

That Ready Rig looks great although similarly priced to the EasyRig. At the moment the most cost effective option I am looking at is a steadicam combination using an adaptor seen here:
DJI Ronin Steadicam Armpost Adaptor | CineMilled - DJI Ronin Accessories

Anyway, thanks again and I look forward to hearing what you think when your camera arrives.
As Barry said, the Cinema5D test is flawed in that he made a subjective decision on what was usable vs. his slide that was in fact showing 15 stops...not to mention that he pushed the FS7's ISO to 2000 while the Arri & Canon were at 800ISO....skewd to favor his bias.....and I trust Mr Boyle & Mr Tattersal a lot more with way more real world experience than the 5D guy...
Jim Martin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2015, 01:43 PM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,706
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Martin View Post
and I trust Mr Boyle & Mr Tattersal a lot more with way more real world experience than the 5D guy...
Wait a second here, Jim. Are you saying you'd value the opinions over two individuals who shoot for a living over the word of a blogger/enthusiast?
Gary Huff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2015, 01:56 PM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Burbank, CA 91502
Posts: 946
Re: 4K test shoot with the new C300 Mark II

You funny guy Mr. Huff!!!!
Jim Martin is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:01 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network