canon Eos C200 or other Cine camera for action

[Noa Put]

Well, this went exactly like I predicted :) Also looking forward to hearing Richards thoughts after using the camera. (no unboxing video pls! :)

[Dan Brockett]

My C200 arrives today. Put $7,500.00 in unmarked bills in a brown paper bag in that third trash can, next to the bench in the park and I won't post an unboxing video.

[Richard Kane]

A few more questions:
What do you guys think about Canon Raw light?
Do you think this will be a dead end or used in the future in all their Cine cameras?
Ok and another rookie question. I understand the color work flow with raw and plan on using
Da vimici resolve with my raw footage. what about the quality of the MP4 to sd card how usable is this video can it be shot flat so color grading can be applied in post?
what do you guys think of the new panasonic AU-EVA1?
It seems for my use mostly as a run and gun camera the Canon would be a better fit with its autofocus capability?

[Seth Bloombaum]

Originally Posted by Richard Kane

...what about the quality of the MP4 to sd card how usable is this video can it be shot flat so color grading can be applied in post?...

Yes. See my post above. Canon's 8-bit color is very good. For the 8-bit MP4 sd card recordings you can select Wide DR or a couple versions of Canon Log (CLog) to shoot with flatter profiles.

You do not need to do this to apply color grading in post. You can grade footage shot with a standard profile.

One would select a picture profile appropriate to the dynamic range / latitude of the scene. Almost always, use of CLog will *require* post color correction / grading.

[Barry Goyette]

Originally Posted by Richard Kane

A few more questions:
What do you guys think about Canon Raw light?
Do you think this will be a dead end or used in the future in all their Cine cameras?
Ok and another rookie question. I understand the color work flow with raw and plan on using
Da vimici resolve with my raw footage. what about the quality of the MP4 to sd card how usable is this video can it be shot flat so color grading can be applied in post?
what do you guys think of the new panasonic AU-EVA1?
It seems for my use mostly as a run and gun camera the Canon would be a better fit with its autofocus capability?

Hi Richard...there are some 4k Raw and MP4 clips that have been posted (you'll need to do some searching, I think I saw links over at DVXUSER), and I'd say generally the MP4 footage looks and grades just fine. You'll want to be spot on with your exposure, and not be trying to to "shoot high key and process low key" but otherwise it will probably work fine for the vast majority of things you might shoot. You have the CRL for when the MP4 isn't up to the task.

As for the Panasonic, there really isn't much to be said about it at this point...like many Panasonic announcements from the past...this one is vaporware until it isn't. The specs are fine, but to me it doesn't really offer much, at launch at least, to get excited about.

As I mentioned before, DPAF may be a great thing in your situation, or it may be disappointing in your situation. But DPAF in any situation is better than no DPAF, which is all the DPAF the Panasonic has. :-). If you've ordered a camera, you should have one very soon, and it would be great if you can let us know how it works. From all the footage I've seen, it appears to be a step up from the C300II.

Cinema Raw Light is a major initiative from Canon, in the direction of what RED, in a niche way, did 10 years ago. It's a forward thinking approach to video, and while today the data requirements seem like a lot...3 years from now, you won't even bat an eye. I see it as Canon's way of making RAW in video as commonplace as RAW is in still photography.

I hope that's helpful.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Richard Kane

what do you guys think of the new panasonic AU-EVA1?
It seems for my use mostly as a run and gun camera the Canon would be a better fit with its autofocus capability?

The camera has not hit the streets yet, stick to your c200, I"m sure it will serve you just fine.

[Keith Moreau]

I actually just received my C200 2 days ago from Texas Media Systems - my go to place for getting 'early adopter' camera gear :). The C200 is mostly very back-ordered all over the country. Right now just the first units are shipping and it probably won't be shipping in quantity for a month or 2.

I have a slew of Sony and Canon gear, I had the original C100 and upgraded it to the C100 dual pixel. Amazing tech. Then Sony started coming out with some advanced 4K cameras. I got the original FS700, then the A7iir and A7rii and FS5, and I shoot all in 4K. The image and autofocus on the Sony A7rii is very good, but it's still an 8-bit 4:2:0 codec, you can get amazing stuff out of it but still in grading you have to be conservative.

The C200 fills a niche by being the first Canon camera with internal RAW recording. The internal MP4 recording is probably pretty good, but similar in gradability to the Sony FS5 and A7iis. It's fine for some purposes, but making it stretch to be a 'cinema grade' camera is difficult. However, the ability to record in RAW as an option in such a convenient form factor is incredible. I also have the BlackMagic 4K Ursa Mini (not the 4.6K which isn't global), I got it for the 'global shutter'. It is a beast of a camera and while the image quality is pretty good, I got it for the global shutter only for some special reasons. However, it's size, weight and other ergonomic issues make it a very specialty purchase for me. I got a demo unit so I paid about $2,100 for it. I wouldn't pay the $3K for it though.

One thing about the C200 is it is fairly large and not super light, when fully configured. You can make it smaller by removing the top handle and LCD flip out unit, but it's substantial. Maybe a bit smaller than the FS7, but certainly bigger than the FS5.

If you do decide to record RAW on the C200, expect to pay a lot for the media. You'll get about 30 minutes out of a 256GB card, which can cost $300-$700 depending on the brand of media. Then you have to offload that footage, and possibly transcode it to footage you can use on your NLE. All things to consider.

The other big factor is the amazing Autofocus with the C200. It is unique in this type of cinema camera. Professional hollywood crews are using the C300mkII for this reason on some rigs like gimbals that are hard to use a follow focus on.The same or better autofocus is in the C200, and the quality is going to be better using RAW lite recording than the C300mkii.

However Richard Kane I applaud your enthusiasm for wanting superlative quality, I think you'll get it with the C200 RAW, but it will be a lot of work. Go for it! I talk about the C200 and other cinematography issues in my podcast TechMove - TechMove is the Podcast all about Cinematography and Gear, Mac Computers, and iOS Devices from a Unique Perspective! -TechMove is the Podcast all about Cinematography and Gear, Mac Computers, and iOS Devices from a Unique Perspective! Check it out.

[Dan Brockett]

Newsshooter posted some nice C200 UHD .MP4 in 4k here

Canon C200 UHD internal MP4 4:2:0 8-bit example footage on Vimeo

Some converted C200 Cinema RAW Light in 4k here

Canon C200 Cinema RAW Light example footage on Vimeo

And Matthew Allard's very comprehensive video review here

In-depth Canon C200 Review on Vimeo

I've received the C200 Thursday and so far, it's exactly what I thought I was buying. a few quirks (only 120 FPS slow motion in 1080, I thought you would be able to select frame rates between 61 and 120 fps but not so much, you lose the grip joystick quick access function of the C100/MKII, the fan blows hot air into your ear when shoulder mounted and so far, the fan has not shut off once in two days, but it is Summer and hot here).

.MP4s look surprisingly good as long as you get your exposure and WB right, the 8-bit 4:2:0 issue isn't that big unless your clients require 10-bit 4:2:2. If they do, you have to bolt on an external recorder or shoot Cinema RAW Light. As soon as FCP X and Adobe Premiere CC have it integrated, it will become a lot easier to use.

DPAF is amazingly useful and adjustable. Doesn't replace a focus puller in narrative but for documentary, BTS and event shooters, a Godsend. Touchscreen is a bit awkward though, not a good place to fold it against the body without possibly getting gouged or scratched, I don't see putting this camera in a camera case without removing the touch screen or putting a cover on it.

This camera does more right than it does wrong, no camera is perfect and this one isn't but for how I shoot, it totally works.

[Jay Soriano]

Hi Dan,

Do you still have the EVA1 on pre-order or stick with the C200? Seems you're happy with it. Congrats.

[Steve Burkett]

Controversial point here, but all the samples I have seen from the C200 have not really impressed me at all. Which is odd as I often have liked Canon's image (if not their prices and holding back features). I can't really pin down what is wrong with the image. Maybe it's that the Canon look has become all to familiar and I find myself gravitating more to the Blackmagic look from their cameras. Maybe it's the grading of the RAW files...

I am looking to get a cinema camera of the C200 price range next year. However each model has its own strengths and weaknesses. Even the EVA-1 is somewhat limited in bitrate. Same as that seen on the GH5, which I accept because it's a 2k priced camera. For almost 4 times the cost, I'd expect more; though perhaps I'm just being greedy. :)

My perfect camera would take the look of the Blackmagic URSA 4.6 model and it's codecs, the Dual ISO of the Panasonic and the AF and RAW of the C200. What a camera that would be.

[Barry Goyette]

I've got to admit that I've seen a lot of grades from the C200 that worry me a little, although I've seen enough side by sides with the C300II that show the images are pretty similar (mr Allard's use of WB presets to compare the images in his review notwithstanding)....so I doubt there's anything more going on here than bad grading. I've had a go at a few clips published online, and I've been able to get them looking nice to my eye.

The only inkling I have is that, at least in Geoff Boyle's test on CML, the C200 does seem to lack saturation (something I've heard to be true about the BM 4.6 as well), and so perhaps it's not doing as well with the various LUT these reviewers are using to grade with.

[Richard Kane]

Has anyone bought cine cameras from "professional video" a site sponsor and how was you experience?

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Jay Soriano

Hi Dan,

Do you still have the EVA1 on pre-order or stick with the C200? Seems you're happy with it. Congrats.

Still on pre-order. The C200 is a nice camera but for what I do, the DPAF is almost a must. I end up shooting a lot of long lens interviews with hyperactive subjects (musicians lately, and writing staff for a popular animated series) who have tendency to squirm around a lot, constantly moving closer and farther from the lens. Face tracking takes what used to be a nightmare of riding focus and makes it effortless.I rarely have a 17" or larger production monitor to check focus and it can be very difficult to judge if something is really sharp on a 5" screen, take that up a notch when shooting 4K. I use focus magnify but with some faces and in certain lighting, it can still be tough to judge if an image is tack sharp.

I look forward to seeing the first EVA 1 footage that has been shooting recently in Iceland and possibly a few other places around the world. The proof is in the puddling.

[Richard Kane]

Has anyone tried different cfast memory other than san disk?
I notice Amazon sell other brands much cheaper such as Delkin?

[Seth Bloombaum]

Originally Posted by Richard Kane

Has anyone bought cine cameras from "professional video" a site sponsor and how was you experience?

As I understand it, site sponsors are not just advertisers - Chris is working with them individually and does some screening.

That apart, Professional Video is a company local to me here in Portland, they are a long-time vendor with a good reputation that I've dealt wth occasionally over a period of decades. If you have concerns or questions don't hesitate to contact them.

These limited releases that Canon does in the first few weeks of a new product can be a little stressful, but, if a site sponsor commits a camera to you, that committment should be good!