EX-1 user considering 5D/7D at DVinfo.net

Wing Poon · October 20th, 2009, 03:26 PM

Hello everyone,

Less than a year ago, I bought an EX-1, Letus, wireless lavs, rail system; the works. I was ready to start my career as an independent videographer. I did four projects in Japan: two live events and two b-roll/interview projects. Since I've been back, I haven't used my rig at all. It's getting harder and harder these days to find decent videography work around me, and money's getting tighter.

I've seen the work that's come out of the 5D and 7D and I'm very impressed. When they first debuted, I had seen some of the video, but I just brushed it off as a gimmick. After seeing what people are getting out of them today, I'm eating my own words. Also, since they're considerably cheaper than what I currently have, I think I could kit it out and still come out cheaper than what I spent on my EX-1 rig. So this has got me thinking about adopting one of these guys into my workflow.

So, if I were to sell my current rig and pick up a 5D/7D, what would I be gaining and/or losing? I don't know much about the workings and the workflow involved with using one of these DSLRs. So where would these cameras excel over my current rig? Where would they be inferior to my current rig? Thanks!

Dan Brockett · October 20th, 2009, 04:01 PM

Wing:

Not sure why you are contemplating changing out all of your gear if you are suffering from lack of work? Makes no sense. Even though these cameras cost less, you will take a good loss in selling your EX1 rig and you will have to buy lots of costly accessories and lenses for a new DSLR. In the end, I doubt if you will be saving anything significant. The 5D MKII/7D are great but having one won't increase your workload.

I would put your time, money and effort into networking and landing more work. Buying new gear is just going to cost you. DSLRs are not video cameras, they have terrible audio, ergonomics and limitations for video work. Not that it cannot be done but going from a nice video camera like the Sony to a DSLR may prove to not be a good move for you.

Dan

Brian Luce · October 20th, 2009, 04:02 PM

I'll say pull the trigger and dump the EX1 kit. Here's why:
1) The EX1 is still brilliant and you can still get a good price on it. But the earth is shifting beneath our feet. It's already been superseded by a new line. Sell now or face the possibility eventually having to take a bath on it. That 35mm adapter in particular is looking archaic.
2) The 7d is cheap!
3) The portability factor. The 7d is a tiny, compact kit.
4) Since the 7d is still primarily a still camera, it's reasonable to expect that it'll hold its value better than video cam. eg, I just sold a 20d for exactly what I paid for it.
5) The lenses you invest in will hold their value.

Financially, I think it makes sense to ebay the Sony.

Perrone Ford · October 20th, 2009, 04:14 PM

What a loaded question.

I have been an EX1 owner for about a year and a half. I've shot dozens of interviews, conferences, and the like with it. I was not "wowed" by the release of the 5D/7D like many people seemed to be.

I am currently involved in a production with the 5D. There is no tripod being used on this production. It is all shoulder-brace, Fig Rig, and maybe a Steadicam, but we haven't used it yet. Though I am not doing the post for the project, I am playing with footage in post to see how it reacts. This has given me some insight and perspective into the camera.

I will offer some insight into the 5D as I see it from an EX1 owner's perspective.

1. The codec isn't as good. I'm looking at tracking shots, walking shots, etc. It's good, but the EX1 looks better.

2. There is no ND. So you NEED a mattbox or some other way to control light if you want to maintain shutter speed and aperture.

3. Wild sound recording is not anywhere close. If you plan on doing sync sound this may matter to you.

4. The lack of Live Preview mode is a killer. Plug in your HDMI to send to video village, and you are dead in the water. The only way to do this is to split the HDMI signal and use a hotshoe mounted monitor or something similar.

5. The DOF is beautiful if that is what you are looking for. This is great for narrative work. It would be REALLY challenging in some other instances. And honestly, I am not interested in putting on a mattbox to shoot a soccer game.

6. The footage handles nicely in post. I was able to drop the footage straight into FCP and Vegas. Same files. I wish the EX1 was that easy.

7. The placement of the battery is TERRIBLE for video work.

8. They charge you extra for A/C power. Like $180 extra... Come on!

9. It would be REALLY nice to have an articulating LCD because you are often not in a position to be directly behind the camera. Interviews would be particularly tough as you'd have to run behind the camera to check framing all during setup.

All in all, I think the 5D is a LOT better suited to filmmaking than other kinds of videography. When you can control the lights, the camera movements, and you have rails and other accessories, it's not a bad system at all. But it's a whole other world if you are not in control of some of those elements. I can't see saving much money if any dumping the EX1 and going to this system. And you'll still be limited on continuous recording. You'll spend half the cost of the EX1 trying to buy lenses for the 5D that match what the stock EX1 lens gives you. By the time you add rails, follow-focus, mattbox, etc., it's probably a wash. I'd hang on to the EX1 for now, and see what the RED boys come up with. THAT may prove to be the upgrade we've all wanted.

Just my observations from my limited time with the camera. We've got half a month to go, so I'll see if anything changes for me.

Paul Joy · October 21st, 2009, 01:38 AM

I've been shooting with a 7D for the last couple of days and I'd say that while I can see that it might cause the sale of my brevis 35mm adapter, it certainly couldn't replace my EX1 altogether.

If all of your work is 35mm adapter type stuff then I'd say it might be worth the change and learning to work around the limitations of the 5D/7D.

You'll struggle though if you get an event to shoot or a corporate video where DOF isn't the primary concern, the EX1 is a much better tool in that situation in my opinion.

Bill Pryor · October 21st, 2009, 08:57 AM

I have to agree with that. The EX1 is the best thing out there in its price range and produces great quality video. If you already own one, keep it.

Khoi Pham · October 21st, 2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing Poon

Hello everyone,

Less than a year ago, I bought an EX-1, Letus, wireless lavs, rail system; the works. I was ready to start my career as an independent videographer. I did four projects in Japan: two live events and two b-roll/interview projects. Since I've been back, I haven't used my rig at all. It's getting harder and harder these days to find decent videography work around me, and money's getting tighter.

I've seen the work that's come out of the 5D and 7D and I'm very impressed. When they first debuted, I had seen some of the video, but I just brushed it off as a gimmick. After seeing what people are getting out of them today, I'm eating my own words. Also, since they're considerably cheaper than what I currently have, I think I could kit it out and still come out cheaper than what I spent on my EX-1 rig. So this has got me thinking about adopting one of these guys into my workflow.

So, if I were to sell my current rig and pick up a 5D/7D, what would I be gaining and/or losing? I don't know much about the workings and the workflow involved with using one of these DSLRs. So where would these cameras excel over my current rig? Where would they be inferior to my current rig? Thanks!

It would excel in DOF control and low light if you have fast lens, what you see on the internet are not real, it hides a lot of defects like aliasing, moire, so imho, no way it should replace your EX1, but only as additional camera for the shalow dof type of shots.

Paul Cascio · October 21st, 2009, 06:49 PM

I shoot with an HMC150. The D7 I ordered will be arriving tomorrow. As Paul Joy indicated, the D5/7 is a reason to sell you 35mm adapter, but not your EX1.

The SLRs are a great 2nd camera for shots requiring depth of field control, for shooting B-roll while out and about, or possibly for special low light conditions. I wish I had an EX1, which has the best image quality available. I would never trade it for an SLR as there are too many penalties to pay in convenience, sound, etc..

Mys suggestion is to keep your EX1 and when you can, add the 7D. I'd also look for new ways to make sales and let the 7D be the reward for your success. A new camera won't mean more profit. In fact, you'll look less professional shooting with a "still" camera. However, if you insist, I'll trade my new D7 and lenses for your EX1. I'll be in NOLA in a couple of weeks.

Burk Webb · October 21st, 2009, 08:23 PM

I'm with Brian Luce.

A friend of mine who owns a gear rental place in town once said:

"The two most important things to know are when to buy a camera and when to sell a camera..."

If that EX1 is just sitting on a shelf I say dump it and and grab a 7D. I really think selling that Letus as quick as possible would be a good call as well. The Letus value will drop like a rock after all the indy film guys start working with the Canon DSLR stuff.

The great thing about the 7D is it's CHEAP and if you need to dump it you will have no problem selling it. But then again this is just some strangers opinion...

Brian Luce · October 21st, 2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burk Webb

"The two most important things to know are when to buy a camera and when to sell a camera..."

That's my real point. The EX1 and 3 are the best cameras south of 10k. But looking at purely from a business pov, it makes sense to sell now while its value is still high.

It's not that the 7d is better, it isn't.

Just lookin at the numbers here.

Perrone Ford · October 21st, 2009, 09:18 PM

Sell them and buy what? There's nothing below $10k that's comparable at this point. Nothing even close if the EX series is really what you need.

Josh Dahlberg · October 21st, 2009, 10:59 PM

I think Perrone's spot on.

I have a 5d2 and 7d - they're great for portability, low light, dof control, stills... but I use my Z5 for day to day work.

In a production environment you will soooo miss built in NDs, swivel viewfinder, ergonomics, run-time, moire/aliasing free footage, auto-focus, etc etc...

If you're doing your own projects and have time on your hands, sure the 7d is great. But if you're working with clients in varied production situations, often times it won't be up to the task.

My next camera will be an EX series cam.

Brian Drysdale · October 22nd, 2009, 03:21 AM

I don't know which market you're trying to work in, but the EX1 seems to be working out in business terms for many people (I suspect a lot more than the people using the current DSLR cameras for video). I'd address your own marketing before dashing out to buy new kit, especially when there are a number of camera options coming out in the near future and these DSLR cameras specs seem to be changing so fast.

I wouldn't work on the base price of these cameras, by the time you add the accessories the cost will go up.

Paul Cascio · October 22nd, 2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burk Webb

...A friend of mine who owns a gear rental place in town once said:

"The two most important things to know are when to buy a camera and when to sell a camera..."

...

Truer words were never spoken. Of course, I have yet to figure out either half of that equation.

Brett Sherman · October 22nd, 2009, 12:36 PM

If you want to get out of the business and just have something you can shoot your personal videos then I think it makes sense to sell the EX1.

If you're still trying to get work, I think you'll have a tough time marketing yourself as a videographer with a 7D. It has serious limitations - especially in the audio realm. I don't know of anyone looking to hire 5D or 7D shooters. I personally wouldn't take my chances with a 7D in a live event.

I always figure I have about 2-3 years to get my money's worth out of a camera. I just sold my V1U and got an EX1. I couldn't be happier with it. I think it's the best bang for the buck out there now.

October 20th, 2009, 03:26 PM	#1
Wing Poon New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Thibodaux, LA Posts: 24	EX-1 user considering 5D/7D Hello everyone, Less than a year ago, I bought an EX-1, Letus, wireless lavs, rail system; the works. I was ready to start my career as an independent videographer. I did four projects in Japan: two live events and two b-roll/interview projects. Since I've been back, I haven't used my rig at all. It's getting harder and harder these days to find decent videography work around me, and money's getting tighter. I've seen the work that's come out of the 5D and 7D and I'm very impressed. When they first debuted, I had seen some of the video, but I just brushed it off as a gimmick. After seeing what people are getting out of them today, I'm eating my own words. Also, since they're considerably cheaper than what I currently have, I think I could kit it out and still come out cheaper than what I spent on my EX-1 rig. So this has got me thinking about adopting one of these guys into my workflow. So, if I were to sell my current rig and pick up a 5D/7D, what would I be gaining and/or losing? I don't know much about the workings and the workflow involved with using one of these DSLRs. So where would these cameras excel over my current rig? Where would they be inferior to my current rig? Thanks!

October 20th, 2009, 04:14 PM	#4
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	What a loaded question. I have been an EX1 owner for about a year and a half. I've shot dozens of interviews, conferences, and the like with it. I was not "wowed" by the release of the 5D/7D like many people seemed to be. I am currently involved in a production with the 5D. There is no tripod being used on this production. It is all shoulder-brace, Fig Rig, and maybe a Steadicam, but we haven't used it yet. Though I am not doing the post for the project, I am playing with footage in post to see how it reacts. This has given me some insight and perspective into the camera. I will offer some insight into the 5D as I see it from an EX1 owner's perspective. 1. The codec isn't as good. I'm looking at tracking shots, walking shots, etc. It's good, but the EX1 looks better. 2. There is no ND. So you NEED a mattbox or some other way to control light if you want to maintain shutter speed and aperture. 3. Wild sound recording is not anywhere close. If you plan on doing sync sound this may matter to you. 4. The lack of Live Preview mode is a killer. Plug in your HDMI to send to video village, and you are dead in the water. The only way to do this is to split the HDMI signal and use a hotshoe mounted monitor or something similar. 5. The DOF is beautiful if that is what you are looking for. This is great for narrative work. It would be REALLY challenging in some other instances. And honestly, I am not interested in putting on a mattbox to shoot a soccer game. 6. The footage handles nicely in post. I was able to drop the footage straight into FCP and Vegas. Same files. I wish the EX1 was that easy. 7. The placement of the battery is TERRIBLE for video work. 8. They charge you extra for A/C power. Like $180 extra... Come on! 9. It would be REALLY nice to have an articulating LCD because you are often not in a position to be directly behind the camera. Interviews would be particularly tough as you'd have to run behind the camera to check framing all during setup. All in all, I think the 5D is a LOT better suited to filmmaking than other kinds of videography. When you can control the lights, the camera movements, and you have rails and other accessories, it's not a bad system at all. But it's a whole other world if you are not in control of some of those elements. I can't see saving much money if any dumping the EX1 and going to this system. And you'll still be limited on continuous recording. You'll spend half the cost of the EX1 trying to buy lenses for the 5D that match what the stock EX1 lens gives you. By the time you add rails, follow-focus, mattbox, etc., it's probably a wash. I'd hang on to the EX1 for now, and see what the RED boys come up with. THAT may prove to be the upgrade we've all wanted. Just my observations from my limited time with the camera. We've got half a month to go, so I'll see if anything changes for me. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

October 21st, 2009, 01:38 AM	#5
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	I've been shooting with a 7D for the last couple of days and I'd say that while I can see that it might cause the sale of my brevis 35mm adapter, it certainly couldn't replace my EX1 altogether. If all of your work is 35mm adapter type stuff then I'd say it might be worth the change and learning to work around the limitations of the 5D/7D. You'll struggle though if you get an event to shoot or a corporate video where DOF isn't the primary concern, the EX1 is a much better tool in that situation in my opinion. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

October 21st, 2009, 06:49 PM	#8
Paul Cascio Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, CT (Home of EPSN) Posts: 1,192	I shoot with an HMC150. The D7 I ordered will be arriving tomorrow. As Paul Joy indicated, the D5/7 is a reason to sell you 35mm adapter, but not your EX1. The SLRs are a great 2nd camera for shots requiring depth of field control, for shooting B-roll while out and about, or possibly for special low light conditions. I wish I had an EX1, which has the best image quality available. I would never trade it for an SLR as there are too many penalties to pay in convenience, sound, etc.. Mys suggestion is to keep your EX1 and when you can, add the 7D. I'd also look for new ways to make sales and let the 7D be the reward for your success. A new camera won't mean more profit. In fact, you'll look less professional shooting with a "still" camera. However, if you insist, I'll trade my new D7 and lenses for your EX1. I'll be in NOLA in a couple of weeks. __________________ Paul Cascio www.pictureframingschool.com

October 21st, 2009, 09:18 PM	#11
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Sell them and buy what? There's nothing below $10k that's comparable at this point. Nothing even close if the EX series is really what you need. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

October 20th, 2009, 04:01 PM	#2
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Wing: Not sure why you are contemplating changing out all of your gear if you are suffering from lack of work? Makes no sense. Even though these cameras cost less, you will take a good loss in selling your EX1 rig and you will have to buy lots of costly accessories and lenses for a new DSLR. In the end, I doubt if you will be saving anything significant. The 5D MKII/7D are great but having one won't increase your workload. I would put your time, money and effort into networking and landing more work. Buying new gear is just going to cost you. DSLRs are not video cameras, they have terrible audio, ergonomics and limitations for video work. Not that it cannot be done but going from a nice video camera like the Sony to a DSLR may prove to not be a good move for you. Dan

October 20th, 2009, 04:02 PM	#3
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	I'll say pull the trigger and dump the EX1 kit. Here's why: 1) The EX1 is still brilliant and you can still get a good price on it. But the earth is shifting beneath our feet. It's already been superseded by a new line. Sell now or face the possibility eventually having to take a bath on it. That 35mm adapter in particular is looking archaic. 2) The 7d is cheap! 3) The portability factor. The 7d is a tiny, compact kit. 4) Since the 7d is still primarily a still camera, it's reasonable to expect that it'll hold its value better than video cam. eg, I just sold a 20d for exactly what I paid for it. 5) The lenses you invest in will hold their value. Financially, I think it makes sense to ebay the Sony.

October 21st, 2009, 08:57 AM	#6
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I have to agree with that. The EX1 is the best thing out there in its price range and produces great quality video. If you already own one, keep it.

October 21st, 2009, 08:23 PM	#9
Burk Webb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 249	I'm with Brian Luce. A friend of mine who owns a gear rental place in town once said: "The two most important things to know are when to buy a camera and when to sell a camera..." If that EX1 is just sitting on a shelf I say dump it and and grab a 7D. I really think selling that Letus as quick as possible would be a good call as well. The Letus value will drop like a rock after all the indy film guys start working with the Canon DSLR stuff. The great thing about the 7D is it's CHEAP and if you need to dump it you will have no problem selling it. But then again this is just some strangers opinion...

October 21st, 2009, 10:59 PM	#12
Josh Dahlberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 513	I think Perrone's spot on. I have a 5d2 and 7d - they're great for portability, low light, dof control, stills... but I use my Z5 for day to day work. In a production environment you will soooo miss built in NDs, swivel viewfinder, ergonomics, run-time, moire/aliasing free footage, auto-focus, etc etc... If you're doing your own projects and have time on your hands, sure the 7d is great. But if you're working with clients in varied production situations, often times it won't be up to the task. My next camera will be an EX series cam.

October 22nd, 2009, 03:21 AM	#13
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	I don't know which market you're trying to work in, but the EX1 seems to be working out in business terms for many people (I suspect a lot more than the people using the current DSLR cameras for video). I'd address your own marketing before dashing out to buy new kit, especially when there are a number of camera options coming out in the near future and these DSLR cameras specs seem to be changing so fast. I wouldn't work on the base price of these cameras, by the time you add the accessories the cost will go up.

October 22nd, 2009, 12:36 PM	#15
Brett Sherman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mount Rainier, MD Posts: 428	If you want to get out of the business and just have something you can shoot your personal videos then I think it makes sense to sell the EX1. If you're still trying to get work, I think you'll have a tough time marketing yourself as a videographer with a 7D. It has serious limitations - especially in the audio realm. I don't know of anyone looking to hire 5D or 7D shooters. I personally wouldn't take my chances with a 7D in a live event. I always figure I have about 2-3 years to get my money's worth out of a camera. I just sold my V1U and got an EX1. I couldn't be happier with it. I think it's the best bang for the buck out there now.