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Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD
APS-C sensor cameras including the 80D, 70D, 7D Mk. II, 7D, EOS M and Rebel models for HD video recording.


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Old October 31st, 2009, 06:34 PM   #16
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Avchd

Just to be clear, the GH1 does NOT use AVCHD lite. Rather, it has normal AVCHD at a 17 mbs data rate, much like Panasonic's consumer camcorders.

AVCHD lite is limited to 720p and found on the smaller, snapshot cams.

I personally believe that we're going to see the 5D trumping the GH1, but the GH1 trumping the 7D, for a number of reasons including ergonomics, but also in certain parts of the image quality. At it's price point, the GH1 can hardly be beat.
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Old November 1st, 2009, 12:45 PM   #17
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Thanks for the clarification on the GH1 AVCHD codec - although I personally still think this is the main achilles heal of the Lumix (for my particular needs). Maybe Panasonic will address this in the next version, whenever that might be. If the GH1 had a better codec it would, without any doubt, be my first choice.

Sure, you're right, at it's price point the GH1 is a very tough act to beat. After all, if I buy the Canon 7D and a decent lens it's going to cost me near enough double - which is why I've really agonised over this choice for the last 7 days!

The main plus points (for me) with the GH1 are:
(1) Ergonomics (especially swivel out screen) - truely the best "designed in video mode" on a DSLR to date
(2) Much smaller & lighter than my main alternative (7D)
(3) Ability to use a wide variety of lenses with adapters - I have mostly legacy Olympus OM lenses from 20 years ago
(4) Price
(5) Ability to autofocus whilst in video mode - I tend to shoot manual anyway so not high on my list

The main negatives with the GH1 (for me) are:
(1) 17 Mbps AVCHD codec - this for me is the deal killer. Whatever super lens I put on the GH1, it's still potentially going to be partly crippled by this codec - people with experience of this have written about it on various forums already
(2) Kit lens, whilst a brilliant effort, is a little slower than I'd feel comfortable with.
(3) The sensors size/2X crop factor limits me a bit in DOF and wide angle choices

The main plus points (for me) with 7D are:
(1) More robust codec (especially for 1080p/dealing with motion)
(2) A better stills camera - some of my clients ask for stills work as a bolt on additional job when I start doing video work for them
(3) Slightly better control of DOF - without being too severe for my tastes
(4) 1.6X Crop factor gives me a little more scope on the wide end (that I often need)
(5) My corporate clients will "accept" it more readily...yeah, I know, but they do pay me!

The main negatives (for me) with the 7D are:
(1) Cost
(2) Weight - but 95% time it'll be on one of my tripods
(3) Ergonomics/flexibility still not class leading for video (especially with fixed screen etc. - but at least the've addressed some of the issues on the original 5D MkII, e.g. critically for me it now has 25p)
(4) As yet, no Magic Lantern additional functionality available (One hopes! - but who knows - I never buy kit on what "might" become available firmware wise).

If I buy a 7D I've still not given up on a GH2 (or whatever it'll be called) in my future!
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Old November 1st, 2009, 04:12 PM   #18
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I'm of the same mind as you, Andy.

Whatever AVCHD profile the GH1 is using, it just doesn't throw enough bandwidth / processing power at it to consistently handle detailed scenes.

And that's the killer!

I prefer the ergonomics of the GH1, the price is better, and I love the out-of-the box image (although I think there's more room for grading with the 7d).

To my eyes the 17mb/s on the GH1 doesn't look as good as the 17mb/s on their camcorders. Even the 720p MJPEG (which is better) still isn't good enough.

And I know the 45(ish)mb/s is not necessarily *proportionally* better... it's definitely better.

I can't afford a 5D, so that leaves the 7D.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 11:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Hooper View Post
Just to be clear, the GH1 does NOT use AVCHD lite. Rather, it has normal AVCHD at a 17 mbs data rate, much like Panasonic's consumer camcorders.
Actually, very much unlike Panasonic's consumer camcorders. The particular implementation of AVCHD in the GH1 is, as near as I can tell, unique to the GH1. And it's really underpowered. Any of the AVCCAM camcorders, for example, will have a far more robust image than the GH1's AVCHD. The camcorders use an implementation of AVCHD that lets them extract the maximum image quality from the available bandwidth, but the GH1 doesn't use the "B" frames, so its 17mbps is far less efficient.

Quote:
I personally believe that we're going to see the 5D trumping the GH1, but the GH1 trumping the 7D, for a number of reasons including ergonomics, but also in certain parts of the image quality. At it's price point, the GH1 can hardly be beat.
If you look at the body-only pricing, the 5D is $2700, the 7D is $1700, and the GH1 should be about $800, so based on the pricing you'd certainly expect the Canons to do better. In actuality the GH1 does deliver a somewhat sharper image, but the Canons' codec is far more robust.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 11:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
To my eyes the 17mb/s on the GH1 doesn't look as good as the 17mb/s on their camcorders
It definitely isn't as good.

Now, that said, when the codec isn't stressed it can deliver beautiful results. But when you exceed its limits it can fall to mush in a way that the Canons and the consumer/prosumer cameras don't.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:01 PM   #21
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Well, just got paid for a big corporate job that I did recently and this morning I just took on another new one ... so this afternoon I actually (finally!) ordered my 7D and the Canon 15-55mm F2.8 USM EF-S lens/a few other extras (from a camera shop in Bristol that I trust).

So I'm committed to the 7D platform now and the GH1 is a might have been - at least for me.

I've seen great results from both cams on Vimeo et al (and equally very bad results from both cams too) - and I know Vimeo is an imperfect platform to judge these things unless downloaded videos are available. However, I guess it's what we all know very well. Learn what the strengths and limitations of each of your tools are and use them creatively with that knowledge in mind ....and most of all have fun with the capabilities provided!

Can't wait to use this in conjunction with my EX3!!! :-)
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