Are DSLRs a valid way to shoot professional video?

Sean Finnegan · March 25th, 2010, 04:34 AM

I believe HDSLR rigs have come a long, long way. Just take a look at the test that Zacuto released today, the great camera shootout. Philip Bloom, Robert Primes ASC, and a number of other top end cinematographers took the time to actually compare the 5D MKII, 7D, 1D MKIV, and others to the gold standard of quality in the industry - 35mm film stock. The results? Well, you'll just have to watch the first episode yourself.

The Great Camera Shootout 2010 | Zacuto

The first episode is all about latitude. Scenes are designed to really push the cameras across the range of exposure to see where they can hold detail and where they begin to lose out. As expected the HDSLRs handle low light exceptionally well. But, check it out. Like I said, just the fact that there are proven and skilled cinematographers out there who are stunned at the quality of footage that is capable by the 5D MKII and 7D shows that they're rapidly closing the gap on 35mm film.

Liam Hall · March 25th, 2010, 07:52 AM

I tried watching that, but gave up after several minutes because it was so unbelievably self-indulgent.

Bryan McCullough · March 25th, 2010, 07:58 AM

I think they're allowed a bit of self-indulgence for what they were able to put together here. If it bugs you so much just skip the first ten minutes.

The tests are excellent, it's unbeliveable that these dirt cheap cameras are even being compared to film and that they are holding their own in many cases! Pretty exciting stuff.

Liam Hall · March 25th, 2010, 08:35 AM

Hey Bryan, I just did that, skipped down to the tests. The first few minutes did put me off though and were totally unnecessary. I'm sure Steve Weisz is a top guy and I have no axe to grind with Zacuto - I think they make excellent products - but all that stuff on the front simply undermined the whole video.

Charles Papert · March 25th, 2010, 11:06 AM

Agreed, Liam. I started watching and was waiting and waiting for something to happen, finally decided I had to let the whole program load and come back when I could skip to the actual tests.

On a larger note, I'm utterly fascinated by what passes as "tests" these days. Sure, old-school camera tests were a little on the dry side, but I'm not clear on why it's become the norm to insist on packaging footage like music videos with the obligatory "a film by" credit. Films are films, camera tests are camera tests...

Brian Brown · March 25th, 2010, 03:32 PM

Amen, guys. I waded through it all last night. Interesting, for sure, but they really get caught up in their own "pomp and circumstance". Ridiculous.

My biggest question: why wasn't there a RED in there? Just rent a frickin' one. And maybe an EX3. And one of the P2 cams.

And skip all the Western motif, chest-pounding, roll-the-credits crap.

Bryan McCullough · March 25th, 2010, 03:42 PM

Man, you guys are rough. It was clear they were just trying to have a good time and I applaud them for putting some fun into it.

(This complimentary post in no way is because they are giving away a piece of gear each Friday if you post a response to their videos on their site.)

Roger Shealy · March 25th, 2010, 07:06 PM

Hey, a little cheese goes good with dinner! I enjoyed some of the theatrics, but the dialogue before the comparison's got a little tedious.

Of all the issues, I found the close seating of the two speakers in the brick room very awkward.

Régine Weinberg · March 27th, 2010, 07:23 PM

ok it is not unbiased, never ever. Too much talk, and why the got no Red, dead simple Red does not want to be compared to small chease boxes. The zacute movie gives about 7 minutes good information, film is not dead, the 5 and 7 are close, the Nicon has too much compression the 1 maybe a bit more detail,(gray scale, but who cares about it really) and the lumix is not a toy, why does it TAKE 35 MINUTES AND WHY the vine yard poem, who knows it is zacuto.....

Mike Calla · March 28th, 2010, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam Hall

Great work Charles, I see your point about the skin tones, but I think the filmmaking skills more than make up it.

I agree Liam! (not that viewing on youtube is greatest). There have been quite a few "look at the problems in this footage" posts floating around the forums, and many times the problem is so trivial that...well... maybe we have become too picky.

Charles, the story and execution sell it. I wouldn't worry about it, i doubt that outside the circle of creatives, no one will notice.

...the only problem is i wish, i could take my own advice.

Tim Polster · March 28th, 2010, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan McCullough

The tests are excellent, it's unbeliveable that these dirt cheap cameras are even being compared to film and that they are holding their own in many cases! Pretty exciting stuff.

Bryan,

If you are looking at these cameras from a video point of view, I can see where you would think this. But lets not lose sight of the fact that these cameras do replace film in the still world!

If they could make a version that uses the entire sensor area for video then I think the comparison would be even more of a moot point.

With still sensors resolving so much detail these days, I think the available and affordable still lenses would hold up pretty well in a film environment. If one of these hybrid cameras gets made the whole cost-image quality perspective will be turned upside down even more.

I am pretty sure somebody will make this camera, but what will they charge for it? Obviously, the sensors are developed way beyond the resolution needs for video or film. Can you adapt a 21 megapixel sensor to a lower resolution cheaply? Maybe use a previous model's sensor like the 5DMKI? Are they going to put a premium on it since RED already costs $17,500 for the body?

With the install base of still lenses, this convergence seems inevitable. Just who will do it properly?

Régine Weinberg · March 28th, 2010, 08:17 AM

I do investigate all this since years, first... a higher resolution why?
second as high the resolution goes the frames per second are going down.
I money is no issue go for Arri and if u have a contract for the killer movie go for it.
Remember please fat32 4 gig limit, why do they not restart seamless as any videocam?
easy it would vandalise the videocam market in 9 months.

U got it, all this glasses, pulling focus, that is film, a good rig
and waoh u are there that puts videocam to the end.

guess Panasonic, Canon they do know this and just for the reason,
we have to push magic lantern to do the trick
a d7 d5 will behave as comfortable to use as a videocam....

Chris Hurd · March 28th, 2010, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Régine Weinberg

why the got no Red

That test compared D-SLRs to film. The RED One is neither film nor a D-SLR, therefore it wasn't part of the test.

Ruben Colin Gama · April 7th, 2010, 08:41 PM

I'm sure this question has already been asked, but i just want to be more sure 'cause i'm about to buy the 7D, so my question is, Can the 7D work with handheld filming?, i mean if you mount the camera in a DSLR cage or something like that, Will it work for handheld long shots?... ¿¿(and could it be possible to work for running handheld long shots)??...

John Mastrogiacomo · April 7th, 2010, 10:47 PM

Will it work for handheld long shots?... ¿¿(and could it be possible to work for running handheld long shots)??...

If you don't know what you're are doing I doubt it. Even a sea sickness pill won't help.
IS lenses help a little - a good steadicam will help a lot.

Check out the Deshaker plugin for Virtual Dub It's free). If you tune it correctly for your camera it can do wonders.

March 25th, 2010, 04:34 AM	#91
Sean Finnegan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: SF Posts: 54	I believe HDSLR rigs have come a long, long way. Just take a look at the test that Zacuto released today, the great camera shootout. Philip Bloom, Robert Primes ASC, and a number of other top end cinematographers took the time to actually compare the 5D MKII, 7D, 1D MKIV, and others to the gold standard of quality in the industry - 35mm film stock. The results? Well, you'll just have to watch the first episode yourself. The Great Camera Shootout 2010 \| Zacuto The first episode is all about latitude. Scenes are designed to really push the cameras across the range of exposure to see where they can hold detail and where they begin to lose out. As expected the HDSLRs handle low light exceptionally well. But, check it out. Like I said, just the fact that there are proven and skilled cinematographers out there who are stunned at the quality of footage that is capable by the 5D MKII and 7D shows that they're rapidly closing the gap on 35mm film. __________________ Sean Finnegan, cinematographer imfinnegan.tumblr.com // ign.com

March 25th, 2010, 07:52 AM	#92
Liam Hall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 969	I tried watching that, but gave up after several minutes because it was so unbelievably self-indulgent. __________________ Writer-Director-DOP www.liamhall.net

March 25th, 2010, 08:35 AM	#94
Liam Hall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 969	Hey Bryan, I just did that, skipped down to the tests. The first few minutes did put me off though and were totally unnecessary. I'm sure Steve Weisz is a top guy and I have no axe to grind with Zacuto - I think they make excellent products - but all that stuff on the front simply undermined the whole video. __________________ Writer-Director-DOP www.liamhall.net

March 25th, 2010, 11:06 AM	#95
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Agreed, Liam. I started watching and was waiting and waiting for something to happen, finally decided I had to let the whole program load and come back when I could skip to the actual tests. On a larger note, I'm utterly fascinated by what passes as "tests" these days. Sure, old-school camera tests were a little on the dry side, but I'm not clear on why it's become the norm to insist on packaging footage like music videos with the obligatory "a film by" credit. Films are films, camera tests are camera tests... __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

March 25th, 2010, 07:58 AM	#93
Bryan McCullough Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 842	I think they're allowed a bit of self-indulgence for what they were able to put together here. If it bugs you so much just skip the first ten minutes. The tests are excellent, it's unbeliveable that these dirt cheap cameras are even being compared to film and that they are holding their own in many cases! Pretty exciting stuff.

March 25th, 2010, 03:32 PM	#96
Brian Brown Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Estes Park, CO USA Posts: 426	Amen, guys. I waded through it all last night. Interesting, for sure, but they really get caught up in their own "pomp and circumstance". Ridiculous. My biggest question: why wasn't there a RED in there? Just rent a frickin' one. And maybe an EX3. And one of the P2 cams. And skip all the Western motif, chest-pounding, roll-the-credits crap.

March 25th, 2010, 03:42 PM	#97
Bryan McCullough Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 842	Man, you guys are rough. It was clear they were just trying to have a good time and I applaud them for putting some fun into it. (This complimentary post in no way is because they are giving away a piece of gear each Friday if you post a response to their videos on their site.)

March 25th, 2010, 07:06 PM	#98
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Hey, a little cheese goes good with dinner! I enjoyed some of the theatrics, but the dialogue before the comparison's got a little tedious. Of all the issues, I found the close seating of the two speakers in the brick room very awkward.

March 27th, 2010, 07:23 PM	#99
Régine Weinberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bordeaux, going to Bangkok, 2011 Posts: 232	ok it is not unbiased, never ever. Too much talk, and why the got no Red, dead simple Red does not want to be compared to small chease boxes. The zacute movie gives about 7 minutes good information, film is not dead, the 5 and 7 are close, the Nicon has too much compression the 1 maybe a bit more detail,(gray scale, but who cares about it really) and the lumix is not a toy, why does it TAKE 35 MINUTES AND WHY the vine yard poem, who knows it is zacuto.....

March 28th, 2010, 08:17 AM	#102
Régine Weinberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bordeaux, going to Bangkok, 2011 Posts: 232	I do investigate all this since years, first... a higher resolution why? second as high the resolution goes the frames per second are going down. I money is no issue go for Arri and if u have a contract for the killer movie go for it. Remember please fat32 4 gig limit, why do they not restart seamless as any videocam? easy it would vandalise the videocam market in 9 months. U got it, all this glasses, pulling focus, that is film, a good rig and waoh u are there that puts videocam to the end. guess Panasonic, Canon they do know this and just for the reason, we have to push magic lantern to do the trick a d7 d5 will behave as comfortable to use as a videocam....

April 7th, 2010, 08:41 PM	#104
Ruben Colin Gama New Boot Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Morelos, Mexico Posts: 17	I'm sure this question has already been asked, but i just want to be more sure 'cause i'm about to buy the 7D, so my question is, Can the 7D work with handheld filming?, i mean if you mount the camera in a DSLR cage or something like that, Will it work for handheld long shots?... ¿¿(and could it be possible to work for running handheld long shots)??...

April 7th, 2010, 10:47 PM	#105
John Mastrogiacomo Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 85	Will it work for handheld long shots?... ¿¿(and could it be possible to work for running handheld long shots)??... If you don't know what you're are doing I doubt it. Even a sea sickness pill won't help. IS lenses help a little - a good steadicam will help a lot. Check out the Deshaker plugin for Virtual Dub It's free). If you tune it correctly for your camera it can do wonders.