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Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD
APS-C sensor cameras including the 80D, 70D, 7D Mk. II, 7D, EOS M and Rebel models for HD video recording.


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Old May 18th, 2010, 05:44 AM   #1
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Manual Lenses for dSLRs

A pretty generic thread. I bit the bullet and grabbed a 550D to replace my ageing canon. As a still camera seems pretty nice and the video side seems pretty good so far, for certain situations. Will be shooting properly with it as a backup / B Cam this weekend.

I'm curious as to what lenses people have and also what kind of manual lenses are working well.

I've noticed for example that on an 85mm (so about 120mm with crop factor) it is sufficiently long so that when handholding you do see a lot of rolling shutter jello. So i assume that many people aren't on longer lengths? Or at least aren't hand holding. Or don't drink as much coffee as me (that's the real reason i'm not a brain surgeon... honest)

At the moment i have

10-22mm (not tried yet but lovely lens)

30mm f1.4 sigma (great lens however MF isn't ideal as the barrel only has about 90 degree of travel)

50mm f1.4 canon (has 180 degrees of travel on focus making it easier for MF)

85mm f1.4 samyung (just bought this out of curiosity, fully MF, has 180 degrees of travel, so far works well with the movie mode and live view however not getting metering in normal operation, not sure i'm supposed to but will experiment further. Also closest focus isn't that close but it isn't a macro..)

I'm going to try some tests so i can get a feeling for the moire issues and also the jello effect. See what works and what doesn't. Also work out for myself the exposure limits.

But i throw this out there- what other types of lenses have people found that work well? If the samyung performs well then they also have a f2.8 14mm which is quite fast for something so wide.

I was considering something a bit longer but the jello with the 85 might make me rethink.

cheers
paul
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Old May 18th, 2010, 01:47 PM   #2
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Hi Paul,

I ended up buying some old manual focus prime lenses in the m42 format (28mm, 35mm & 50mm). They easily adapt on Canon EOS, even with the cheapest adapter from ebay.
Mind you, I dont make a living with my pictures/movies (Im actually a sound guy!) but the results are very good for me.

hope this helps a little ...
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Old May 18th, 2010, 02:06 PM   #3
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you've got a nice set of lenses to start with. sometimes the 3rd party glass with slightly less performance then the OEM lens is a good thing - it reduces moire / banding. I just got a tamron 70-200 2.8 today. the thing is amazing for the price. does the canon for ( depending on model / ver ) for 2X-4X the price matter to me ? no because I don't normally shoot stills for a living, I'm not competing with 20 other shooters to sell one image where the slightly better performance ( sharper / less CA, ect ) will mean the difference between getting paid or not when picking between near identical shots.

fact is for video which I do get paid for, its all about the look & style. thats why I got the camera in the first place. sometimes older glass with a softer look / lower contrast is just right because again, I'm not worried about it being the sharpest image I can make, its about the coolest best looking one. that might mean wide open some internal flare softens the image, has different bokeh then a L lens, ect.

I have a DF 50 1.8 that won't focus to infinity with the adapter, but its cool for shorter shots. also have a olympus 50 1.4 that should be here in a few days... again, different look, very fast glass.

my primary glass will be a 17-50 2.8 and the 70-200 2.8

I wouldn't mind picking uo the tokina 11-16 2.8 soon to round it out. if I can find a few fast primes as options, its cool, but the zooms are nice just to save moving the camera around so much.

in the end, its called, what ever works :)

just wait until you start playing with the camera settings :)
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Old May 18th, 2010, 04:16 PM   #4
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Hi Paul,

That is a great set of fast lenses. Have you thought about something longer and using a tripod for vows and toasts so you don't have to be right on top of your subjects?

Question about the Samyang - does it focus in the same directions as Canon? The spin for close and far focus on Nikon lenses is opposite from Canon and its hard to relearn each time I change lenses. I have some fast Nikon primes but I'm thinking of going to Pentax M42 and K mount versions because the focus rotation is the same as Canon. Just curious which way the Samyang goes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Curtis View Post
A pretty generic thread. I bit the bullet and grabbed a 550D to replace my ageing canon. As a still camera seems pretty nice and the video side seems pretty good so far, for certain situations. Will be shooting properly with it as a backup / B Cam this weekend.

I'm curious as to what lenses people have and also what kind of manual lenses are working well.

I've noticed for example that on an 85mm (so about 120mm with crop factor) it is sufficiently long so that when handholding you do see a lot of rolling shutter jello. So i assume that many people aren't on longer lengths? Or at least aren't hand holding. Or don't drink as much coffee as me (that's the real reason i'm not a brain surgeon... honest)

At the moment i have

10-22mm (not tried yet but lovely lens)

30mm f1.4 sigma (great lens however MF isn't ideal as the barrel only has about 90 degree of travel)

50mm f1.4 canon (has 180 degrees of travel on focus making it easier for MF)

85mm f1.4 samyung (just bought this out of curiosity, fully MF, has 180 degrees of travel, so far works well with the movie mode and live view however not getting metering in normal operation, not sure i'm supposed to but will experiment further. Also closest focus isn't that close but it isn't a macro..)

I'm going to try some tests so i can get a feeling for the moire issues and also the jello effect. See what works and what doesn't. Also work out for myself the exposure limits.

But i throw this out there- what other types of lenses have people found that work well? If the samyung performs well then they also have a f2.8 14mm which is quite fast for something so wide.

I was considering something a bit longer but the jello with the 85 might make me rethink.

cheers
paul
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Old May 18th, 2010, 05:24 PM   #5
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I find that all my lenses work well for video. I don't think resolution is as crucial for video as it is for stills.
I use:

Sigma 18-200 OS (all-around winner, video looks great, nice manual focus).
Canon 50 mm 1.8 (low-light, movement, lousy manual focus)
Canon 18-55 IS (great for traveling light and hand-held, poor manual focus)
Canon 10-22 (great for WA and big DOF so focus is not crucial, but more susceptible to moire and aliasing at widest)
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Old May 18th, 2010, 06:15 PM   #6
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Is this about manual lenses or AF lenses with a manual mode? Anyway, I'll talk about my fave manual lenses.

Not a bad idea to collect primes from one manufacturer. More continuity going between lenses. The Takumar range is up there with the best from the m42 days, great build, great focusing action.

Building a set of fast primes, I might have gone with Nikkors, but I feel you get more for your money from Takumars.

Vivitar close focus 28mm f/2.8 - nice to have a good close-up lens. Goes to 20cm.

Vivitar Series 1 28mm f/1.9 - Lacks contrast, but when you just have to have that extra speed...

Pentax Takumar 50mm f/1.4 SMC - the best lens I own for video. Colors are rendered in a very coherent way, very saturated. Rightly regarded as an all time great lens.

Pentax Takumar 85mm f/1.9 SMC - also excellent - signature Takumar colours. The f/1.8 is famous, and scores 9.8 on pentaxforums.com, but the f/1.9 is not far behind. Both going up in value fast.

Pentax Takumar 105mm f/2.8 preset. Continuous aperture control, if you need it.

Pentacon 135mm f/2.8 - Fifteen blade aperture - they call it the Bokeh monster. Not a Takumar, but similar saturation, contrast and handling.

Pentax Takumar 200mm f/3.5 - Little bit of purple fringing in the corners, lacks super multicoating, preset lens.

Pentax Takumar 300mm f/4 - Fantastic contrast for a long lens, great performer, but crap min. focus distance.

I like primes! I have a few others, but these are the best.

I am looking out for a Samyang 85mm f/1.4, which I believe will be great for video.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 12:36 AM   #7
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M42 seems a good mount. I'm quite interested in old glass, uncoated, some character, lots of flare. I've seen some anamorphic adaptors which have some beautiful aberrations, i mean character...

Steve, have you tried 200mm? How do you find the jello effect? Do you have IS on the 70-200, that might make all the difference?

Joel, the samyung focuses the correct way, they have versions of the lens focusing either way and the canon mount follows the normal canon convention. (And i don't do weddings, i have the luxury of controlled setups. I can see the canon being useful in cars and other smaller locations)

James, interesting reply, i shall look up those Takumars, many thanks.

As for camera settings, i try and turn as much down as possible, certainly the sharpness. Not experimented enough with any of the others. The key would be retaining as much info as possible. ISO100 has the best dynamic range by the look of it. Not sure whether those auto light settings (the one that expands the highlights) do any good though.

cheers
paul

Last edited by Paul Curtis; May 19th, 2010 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Corrected some info
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Old May 21st, 2010, 09:59 AM   #8
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Thanks Paul!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Curtis View Post
Joel, the samyung focuses the correct way, they have versions of the lens focusing either way and the canon mount follows the normal canon convention. (And i don't do weddings, i have the luxury of controlled setups. I can see the canon being useful in cars and other smaller locations)
Good to know. That Samyang is the same 85mm f/1.4 rebadged as Opteka, Vivitar and Rokinon - as low as $250 on eBay. I just received a Sigma 28mm f/1.8 rated as "ugly" on keh.com. Its perfect - looks new. Not bad for $56. But I found out the reason for the classification: there are communication errors between it and the camera. After taking a still in photo mode the image goes to the card but an 09 error appears and you have to turn the camera off and turn it back on to get the LCD screen to clear. Bummer. The good news is that the lens works flawlessly in video mode - even takes stills with no problems. And as a last resort I can always tape over the contacts and it will become a completely manual lens like those with adapters, though without an aperture ring it will always be wide open, which is the only way I'll use it anyway. I rarely meter - its all wysiwyg based on the camera's screen...

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1274453767
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Old May 21st, 2010, 11:47 AM   #9
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200 looks great. I was at about 135 F4, which is supposed to be the softest part of the lens yesterday shooting some talking head stuff. had a 8X8 silk up and a bounce board. looked awesome. if you pan a long lens, you have to do it slowly just to avoid judder... and now rolling shutter :( no way I would normally shoot this hand held ever, I'm always on a tripod / dolly / crane

however, I can't even begin to say how critical focus is. that long, wide open, shooting at about 15ft its like 3inches. if your subject moves a bit, you will get soft. thankfully since I'm delivering 1280 or even 720, that helps a lot, ans a tiny bit of sharpening and it looks perfectly good.

what Il will say is 50mm is too short for talking heads. you have to be too close at say 6 feet or so. 70mm is nice... but again shooting 2.8 I would not recommend because DoF is so shallow. I'd go to more like 4 or even 5.6 so you have a couple inches your subject can move around in. this is really like going back to when I shot 16/35mm and constantly checked DoF charts to see what would hold focus. much more disciplined which I like.

FWIW, I also shot my JVC HD100 mainly for sound along side it. BG is much more in focus, but still soft. in the end I might well use the JVC because seeing the BG better is important because the people are talking about the local area. also the JVC as i have it adjusted grades to match the 550D pretty easily with just a small adjustment.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 01:07 PM   #10
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I wouldn't get too caught up in all the lens hype going on out there, as there are tons of great used manual focus lenses available from places like ebay, that will work just fine with your new camera.

All the Best!
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Old May 25th, 2010, 06:14 AM   #11
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Right, having just done a proper shoot and using the canon as a B camera to satisfy my curiosity i have these observations to add.

The 85mm samyung is a really nice manual lens. The closest focusing distance is quite long, At least 1m, so no macro work. A bargain for the price.

However the biggest problem i see is that if handholding then anything over 50mm will suffer the jello effect and by this i mean overall wobble - not skewing side by side. The 85 (which has to be around 120mm in real terms) really suffers from this. You have to be very careful with it.

I don't have any IS lenses though. So i wonder if anyone has some on/off comparison tests to see how well they negate this?

Beyond that all the usual things said already. Sound was being done elsewhere so i didn't need to worry about that.

Filtration is a pain, but that depends on perhaps finding a swing away matte box (or me holding filters by hand!)

Live view on a manual lens seems to cut out very quickly, i may need to investigate settings.

I'm curious about the fader ND although i'd seen tests to suggest that it really lowers resolution.

I have some stuff at 10mm which i've not reviewed yet, curious to see how that holds up resolution wise. I see the sweet spot for this camera at the wider, more open lengths.

cheers
paul
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