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Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD
APS-C sensor cameras including the 80D, 70D, 7D Mk. II, 7D, EOS M and Rebel models for HD video recording.


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Old September 27th, 2010, 08:40 AM   #16
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Ben:

Fair enough, but have you considered how to cover "fully wide" on your crop body until the 5D Mk III becomes available (and in in sufficient quantities to get one)?

You might consider a used EF-S 10-20 or the Tokina that the OP has. You can always sell it when you make the move. I can't speak for the Tokina but there is a good market for the better EF-S lenses.

Also, since you have chosen to forgo IS in the "barely wide to normal" field of view, you might consider a good shoulder rig (Zacuto, or something cheaper) and/or shoot off a tripod more (using a true fluid head).
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Old September 27th, 2010, 09:47 PM   #17
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Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Zoom Lens

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Originally Posted by Richard D. George View Post
Ben:

Fair enough, but have you considered how to cover "fully wide" on your crop body until the 5D Mk III becomes available (and in in sufficient quantities to get one)?

You might consider a used EF-S 10-20 or the Tokina that the OP has. You can always sell it when you make the move. I can't speak for the Tokina but there is a good market for the better EF-S lenses.

Also, since you have chosen to forgo IS in the "barely wide to normal" field of view, you might consider a good shoulder rig (Zacuto, or something cheaper) and/or shoot off a tripod more (using a true fluid head).
Hi Richard,

Well I did consider the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Zoom Lens, specially because of the IS and great reviews. I was about to buy that one but I ended up with the one I have because a full frame camera is a goal of mine. Just because technology only gets better and cheaper. I also read the other day Canon is making this sensor that is I can't remember how many more times bigger that the 5D sensor. I know, at a cost, but that means the current full frames should go down on price. I agree, if we have enough available, a 5D Mark III will be a dream come true.

I looked at the 'Striker and Z Cage' Zacuto rigs, but ended up postponing those purchases for the same reason I did not get the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Zoom Lens, because I am mainly going to shoot on a tripod. Although, I found this to be the best 'deal' for tripods and it will be either my next purchase or the following one (I still need to get a good shotgun mic [not sure between a Rode NTG-3, a 416 {to expensive}, or something else]):

Manfrotto 055XB Pro Tripod with 503HDV Fluid Video Head - B&H


Do you happen to know if that tripod goes with this following dolly?:

Manfrotto 114 Heavy Duty Cine/Video Dolly 114 - B&H Photo Video


At any rate, always appreciating your input.

Have a great week!!
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Old September 27th, 2010, 10:07 PM   #18
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Ben:

How do you plan to cover fully wide angle now?

The answer on tripods will probably not please you. Please search through the tripod sub-forum so you hear it from others. A manfrotto 503 will not be sufficient for HD work. You will need a true fluid head, like a Sachtler FSB or a Vinton Vision Blue, which will be expensive. Don't just take my word - fully search the tripod sub-forum to get other opinions. Unless the new Manfrotto 504 is completely different than it's predecessors, no sub-thousand dollar Manfrotto head will be fully up to the task for HD. Again, search the forums to confirm this.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 06:57 AM   #19
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Back to the actual topic - I just ordered a new EF-S 17-55 for my next shoot - mainly because its mostly hand-held shoulder rig work. My dusty existing 17-55 is going on my second camera permanently - it is changing lenses during a shoot that damaged this in the first place.

On your tripod - this head is plenty good enough as you are just starting out: The 504HD - in fact you could get away with the 501 for a very tight budget.
Manfrotto 504HD Fluid Video Head 504HD - B&H Photo Video

Its absurd to spend $2,000 to $3,000 on tripod-head combo when you are starting out and do not even have a good sound and mic set up. Also you need lots of practice with a fluid head before you know what you can do with it. For a cheap solution look at the Libecs also.
A very expensive head will not make much difference to your filmmaking than a cheap one right now. However a good mic will - spend your money wisely. Get a good mic before you get to pro fluid heads. The Rode will do fine - its very popular.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 07:23 AM   #20
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Jon:

For your dusty 17-55 now relegated to backup - Canon cleaned mine and turned it around fast, as I needed it for a two week vacation in Hawaii. The cost, as I recall, was reasonable. One of the reasons I now use two bodies is to minimize lens changes in the field.

Ben:

I agree with Jon about getting decent audio stuff early. The problem even with the Rode mic is the AGC in the 7D. Search the forums regarding this issue and the use of a separate digital recorder.

Since this thread is not about tripods I will leave it at this - As a beginner you spent a lot on pro level glass, right away. A Sachtler FSB 6 on aluminum legs would be just under $1,400. (Later - the FSB 4 on aluminum legs is only $840 and good to 8.8 lbs) The 504 might be OK, but search this forum about the 503 or the 503HDV. I have a 503 on CF legs gathering dust.

Last edited by Richard D. George; September 28th, 2010 at 11:41 AM.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 07:46 AM   #21
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Richard and Jon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard D. George View Post
Ben:

How do you plan to cover fully wide angle now?

The answer on tripods will probably not please you. Please search through the tripod sub-forum so you hear it from others. A manfrotto 503 will not be sufficient for HD work. You will need a true fluid head, like a Sachtler FSB or a Vinton Vision Blue, which will be expensive. Don't just take my word - fully search the tripod sub-forum to get other opinions. Unless the new Manfrotto 504 is completely different than it's predecessors, no sub-thousand dollar Manfrotto head will be fully up to the task for HD. Again, search the forums to confirm this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard D. George View Post
Jon:

For your dusty 17-55 now relegated to backup - Canon cleaned mine and turned it around fast, as I needed it for a two week vacation in Hawaii. The cost, as I recall, was reasonable. One of the reasons I now use two bodies is to minimize lens changes in the field.

Ben:

I agree with Jon about getting good audio stuff. The problem even with the Rode mic is the AGC in the 7D. Search the forums regarding this issue and the use of a separate digital recorder.

Since this thread is not about tripods I will leave it at this - As a beginner you spent a lot on pro level glass, right away. A Sachtler FSB 6 on aluminum legs would be just under $1,400. The 504 might be OK, but search this forum about the 503 or the 503HDV. I have a 503 on CF legs gathering dust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Braeley View Post
Back to the actual topic - I just ordered a new EF-S 17-55 for my next shoot - mainly because its mostly hand-held shoulder rig work. My dusty existing 17-55 is going on my second camera permanently - it is changing lenses during a shoot that damaged this in the first place.

On your tripod - this head is plenty good enough as you are just starting out: The 504HD - in fact you could get away with the 501 for a very tight budget.
Manfrotto 504HD Fluid Video Head 504HD - B&H Photo Video

Its absurd to spend $2,000 to $3,000 on tripod-head combo when you are starting out and do not even have a good sound and mic set up. Also you need lots of practice with a fluid head before you know what you can do with it. For a cheap solution look at the Libecs also.
A very expensive head will not make much difference to your filmmaking than a cheap one right now. However a good mic will - spend your money wisely. Get a good mic before you get to pro fluid heads. The Rode will do fine - its very popular.
Hi Richard and Jon,

Well, thank you for the advice. It is certainly very much appreciated.
Yes, I thought sound it is a priority in my case...

This is what I am thinking to solve that:

Rode NTG-3 Basic Shotgun Microphone Kit - B&H Photo Video

Zoom H4n Handy Recorder Kit with 8GB SD Card and Remote Control


And then for the tripod, thanks to you; I was able to find this:

Manfrotto 504HD Head w/546B 2-Stage Aluminum 504HD,546BK - B&H


I think for about 700 buck (after rebate) is a good deal... And definetelly I can see a difference just on the pictures and reviews between the 503 and the 504. So, thanks very much for the suggestion.

Also, do you know if this:

Manfrotto 114 Heavy Duty Cine/Video Dolly 114 - B&H Photo Video


Will play well with that tripod?

A lot to learn, but a lot of fun.

Building my budget again...

THANKS TO YOU BOTH!!
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:38 AM   #22
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A Sachtler FSB 4 on aluminum legs would be $840. Do a thorough search of the tripod sticks and heads before you buy anything.

How are you planning to cover fully wide angle now?
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Old September 29th, 2010, 03:45 PM   #23
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Dust ingress and dust sealing idea for Canon 17-55 EF-S

Getting back to the Canon 17-55mm EF-S and dust. It's my belief that some of the potential dust issues with this lens are not (just) due to lens changing in the field but very much from the "piston effect" when you zoom.

The interior air volume changes dramatically when zooming in, and any dusty air floating around near the lens will get sucked into the lens housing through the annular gap (between the lens body and the "plunger" part with the front lens element on it). This gap is bigger than I'd like. I have no proof this is what's actually happening - but I do have an "engineering brain" - so that's my hunch.

One thing I do with my (so far dustless) 17-55 is NOT to zoom (for shot composure before shooting starts) in any environment where I suspect this might happen (and I get to film in some pretty atrocious factory environments). Yes, I know this is a bit limiting! I also, always, make sure I wipe the outside surface of the extending plastic front part if I see any dust on it - so that this dust does not then get dragged into the body of the lens when you go wide again (as it'll then most likely stay inside!).

So far, after 10 months commercial use my 17-55 has no internal dust. Mind you, today I was shooting up in north Lincolnshire at a company in pooring rain - so dust was hardly an issue - water ingress was my main concern!!! I just kept it a full wide and shielded the lens as best I could with my other hand. The 7D's body is brilliantly weatherproof of course.

The other thing I've been thinking (a lot) about is putting some kind of more tightly fitting seal, perhaps an elasticated woman's hair tie type thing, which would "protect, filter and wipe" at this annular gap (a sort of retrofitted weather seal, if you like). There, that's another personal World Patent idea I've just blown by making it public....

Finally, there was a great "How To" video on YouTube that I found a while ago that shows you step-wise partial dismantling the front of this Canon 17-55 EF-S lens to remove internal dust and then putting it all back together. It looked pretty simple but not something I'd want to do on an expensive lens unless I really needed to (or something you could do easily on location). I mention it as it may interest some of you - can't remember the link but Google should find it very quickly.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #24
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Well I was born in Sheffield across the road from a huge steel-making factory, so I know a little about dust!

A 17-55 replacement arrives this week. Dust did get inside the zoom ring - thats why its not smooth anymore. Its very poor build for a $1,000 plus lens. But there is not much choice except for primes which are tough to use for me - I can never prep my shoots and also limited on weight and space.

I leave in 10 days for China so not much time time to spend looking at alternatives anyway and B&H are still closed until next week. Next year I will be shooting through the summer in India, China and Japan so I will have time to reorganize and even a new cam ... maybe the Scarlett or Epic will finally be available, which I will be in line for - they both use Canon lenses at least.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 06:33 PM   #25
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Mine seems to suck in less dust after I sent it to Canon to have them clean it out - maybe they improved the seals. Some still shooters put high-end UV filters to cover the front element, and claim this helps preventing dust geting behind the front element, but I suspect that is not where the dust is getting sucked in.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 08:38 PM   #26
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Which one and why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard D. George View Post
A Sachtler FSB 4 on aluminum legs would be $840. Do a thorough search of the tripod sticks and heads before you buy anything.

How are you planning to cover fully wide angle now?
Hi Richard,

I take your advice very seriously (no joke). So, let me ask you specifically:

Which one of these 2 and WHY?:

Sachtler 0372 FSB-4 Aluminum Tripod System 0372 - B&H Photo

Manfrotto 504HD Head w/546B 2-Stage Aluminum 504HD,546BK - B&H

I know you already mention the Sachtler, but between these 2, which one and why?


Very much appreciated!!
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Old September 29th, 2010, 09:35 PM   #27
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No further comment. The thread is about glass.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 06:44 PM   #28
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Another tripod option for light cameras...
Vinten Vision Blue

But I digress. Back to glass...
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