what am i doing wrong?? at DVinfo.net

Michael Herrick · November 9th, 2010, 06:08 PM

I recently shot a short video of one of the collegiate mountain bike races that i attended using a t2i and the kit lens, and got the best footage i could, considering i was also competing and had to practice and actually race. here is the actual video YouTube - Parkfield 2010 The footage i got, to me, looks really off. the colors look weird or something. it doesnt look like most t2i videos ive seen. i dont know what i'm doing wrong, am i under exposing? over exposing? I shot this vid at 30fps and neutral camera color settings and auto white balance, and then slightly increased contrast in post to give the colors more pop. Do i need to color correct more? can anyone give any advice?
thanks

Bruce Foreman · November 9th, 2010, 09:27 PM

I wouldn't say you're doing much of anything "wrong". The exposures look good in the sunlit areas, goes some dark when you get away from that into shaded and darker areas. White balance look about OK.

What is probably getting at you is (I'm guessing here) you're probably holding the camera out in front of your face and often can't tell anything about exposure on the LCD. You may need some kind of loupe with a magnifying eyepiece.

I work with the Hoodman "Cinema Kit Pro" for $209. Consists of the Hoodloupe, 3x magnifying eyepiece, and the Hoodcrane that slips into the camera hot shoe and holds the loupe against the LCD. It excludes most extraneous light and allows you to better "see" what's happening on the LCD.

Cinema Kit Pro-Hoodman Corporation

I've tried a few solutions and settled on the Hoodman as easiest to use, mount and remove (takes seconds). Even with a loupe on bright sunny days I often have to raise the screen brightness so I can "see" best. At night I also reduce it by about the same amount in the other direction. When you get used to it you find you can actually make exposure judgements.

But you have to have SOMETHING or you are shooting "blind".

Michael Herrick · November 9th, 2010, 11:49 PM

ya i was gunna try out the lcdvf 3/2 on b&h its only 160 i think, but if you recommend that one, i may try that one out instead

Burk Webb · November 10th, 2010, 01:13 AM

Hey Michael - i think your being a bit to hard on yourself. Looks pretty good to me, especially shooting with the "bare" camera. Bruce is right on with the idea of some kind of "loupe". I'm a fan of the Zacuto Z finder but there are a bunch of good ones out there now.

I think what your reacting to in your video is what I'm just going to call "meh". The shots look fine but they look pretty much like someone using a camcorder for the most part. They don't seem to have that DSLR pop for lack of a better word. It just looks kinda meh.

For me, the real magic of these cameras happens with really nice glass and shooting pretty shallow. Also trying to compose a more "cinematic" shot can really do wonders. It's harder, because shooting bike races at f2.8 ain't easy, but I think it really gets you into the sweet spot of these cams. It looks like your getting there, just keep plugging away at it.

Oh, just to illustrate.

Here is something I shot recently of a cross race I did. I've been racing as well as shooting the event so kind of similar to your projects workflow. Shot with a 7D but a t2i should give similar results:

Stelios Christofides · November 10th, 2010, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Foreman

...work with the Hoodman "Cinema Kit Pro" for $209. Consists of the Hoodloupe, 3x magnifying eyepiece, and the Hoodcrane that slips into the camera hot shoe and holds the loupe against the LCD. It excludes most extraneous light and allows you to better "see" what's happening on the LCD.

Bruce , I am waring prescription glasses and I would like to know how you can focus if you are using the Hoodman without the glasses.

Stelios

David Quakenbush · November 10th, 2010, 08:35 AM

@ Burk: great shot selection!

@Stelios: The hoodman 3x has a focus on the eyepiece. I use it without my glasses all the time -- works great. Note that the hoodman kit I bough used little silicone rubber bands to strap the loupe to the camera. They lasted about 15 minutes before splitting apart.

Michiel van Baasbank · November 10th, 2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Herrick

I recently shot a short video of one of the collegiate mountain bike races that i attended using a t2i and the kit lens, and got the best footage i could, considering i was also competing and had to practice and actually race. here is the actual video YouTube - Parkfield 2010 The footage i got, to me, looks really off. the colors look weird or something. it doesnt look like most t2i videos ive seen. i dont know what i'm doing wrong, am i under exposing? over exposing? I shot this vid at 30fps and neutral camera color settings and auto white balance, and then slightly increased contrast in post to give the colors more pop. Do i need to color correct more? can anyone give any advice?
thanks

To me, it looks good, really good. You've got some nice shallow DOF shots, and to me the colors don't seem weird. I think most t2i/7D vids are color corrected (a bit) more agressive, in combination with some cinematic-style shots, like Burk is demonstrating. Try some more aggressive color correction and post the video again.

First shots of your footage are obviously handheld and rather jumpy, and unless there is some Jason Bourne-style action in these shots, it tends to give a camcorder-like feeling. But overall, I would consider this footage a good example of how versatile the T2i really is.

Luke Gates · November 10th, 2010, 11:20 AM

IMO get the lcdvf 3:2!!! Its nicer. Or don't take my advice and check out some reviews. I've never seen the hoodman on top of the lcdvf.

Martyn Hull · November 10th, 2010, 11:27 AM

well i find cutting the exposure more than it shows in the lcd on auto helps me, left on auto exposure they do tend to overexpose.

Bruce Foreman · November 10th, 2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides

Bruce , I am waring prescription glasses and I would like to know how you can focus if you are using the Hoodman without the glasses.

Stelios

I fold that rubber eyeshield down and use my eyeglasses. The diopter adjust is set for me wearing my eyeglasses so anyone else with corrected eyesight should be able to see clearly through it.

I have to wear eyeglasses for everything else so I don't try to adjust camera viewfinder diopter for use without my glasses. I've become used to working with glasses all my life.

Bruce Foreman · November 10th, 2010, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Gates

IMO get the lcdvf 3:2!!! Its nicer. Or don't take my advice and check out some reviews. I've never seen the hoodman on top of the lcdvf.

I watched the demo video over on Cheesycam and it looks like a good product. If I didn't have to switch from camera to camera quite a bit, I'd consider that one. We each make our own choices.

If I have time to mount it on the 7D, the CAVISION setup with "swing away" adapter is real sweet with it's 6X eyepiece. Talk about a bright clear LARGE viewfinder image...Hard to beat.

In the Cheesycam review on the Hoodman with the new crane he said this:

"Hoodman now has a ‘crane’ for their loupe to attach to the Hotshoe. This seems to work great for many cameras, but doesn’t quite nail the fit for the T2i."

He couldn't be anymore DEAD WRONG on that. When I first got the "crane" and put it all together it "lived" on the T2i for about two months. I had the CAVISION on the 7D and could switch cameras without having to switch loupes. Then I tried it on the 7d, had to make a small adjustment and I can switch it from camera to camera and adjusting the "fit" takes about 30 seconds.

Chris Estrella · November 10th, 2010, 01:23 PM

I think you might be comparing your work to more cinematic videos (as previously mentioned) where larger rigs are used (dollies, steadicams, and so on) to get those really cool shots. Some of your shots were pretty shaky in the beginning -- were you using an IS lens? You'll be surprised on the difference IS makes, or if it were on a tripod/monopod. The later shots with the bikes were pretty good though, especially given the limited equipment you probably had.

Martyn Hull · November 10th, 2010, 01:37 PM

under exposed rather than over is the option i take if possible.

Michael Herrick · November 10th, 2010, 01:47 PM

that video is really sweet burk! what frame rate do you shoot at for races like that? 30?
and ya i would think it would be really hard to shoot a race at 2.8 because everything would go out of focus so quickly, how do you do it? just alot of practice? it's also hard for me to shoot at a lower aperture because its in the middle of the day. maybe i need to invest in some nd filters.

Burk Webb · November 10th, 2010, 02:51 PM

Thanks Michael, the frame rate of the project is 24p - I was also shooting a lot of 60p and slowing it down to 24 for all the slow motion stuff.

It's pretty hard to shoot bikes at f2.8 but with a bit of practice it's pretty doable. The nice thing is you have a pretty good idea of where they are going to go, just practice the focus move and you can nail it surprisingly often. Shooting overcranked helps as well because you only need them to be in focus for a little bit :)

I am using a follow focus and a SmallHD DP1 to help with focus - and they do help, but it's doable with a bare camera and something like a z finder. Like everything it just takes practice.

As for aperture.... I tend to shoot pretty open, f2.8 or lower depending on the lens. I really kind of like that high shutter, strobey look so I usually set exposure with the shutter. I do have a polarizer on the lens but for that video I was shooting at some pretty high shutter speeds. It really helps for the slow motion as well.

November 9th, 2010, 06:08 PM	#1
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	what am i doing wrong?? I recently shot a short video of one of the collegiate mountain bike races that i attended using a t2i and the kit lens, and got the best footage i could, considering i was also competing and had to practice and actually race. here is the actual video YouTube - Parkfield 2010 The footage i got, to me, looks really off. the colors look weird or something. it doesnt look like most t2i videos ive seen. i dont know what i'm doing wrong, am i under exposing? over exposing? I shot this vid at 30fps and neutral camera color settings and auto white balance, and then slightly increased contrast in post to give the colors more pop. Do i need to color correct more? can anyone give any advice? thanks

November 10th, 2010, 01:13 AM	#4
Burk Webb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 249	Hey Michael - i think your being a bit to hard on yourself. Looks pretty good to me, especially shooting with the "bare" camera. Bruce is right on with the idea of some kind of "loupe". I'm a fan of the Zacuto Z finder but there are a bunch of good ones out there now. I think what your reacting to in your video is what I'm just going to call "meh". The shots look fine but they look pretty much like someone using a camcorder for the most part. They don't seem to have that DSLR pop for lack of a better word. It just looks kinda meh. For me, the real magic of these cameras happens with really nice glass and shooting pretty shallow. Also trying to compose a more "cinematic" shot can really do wonders. It's harder, because shooting bike races at f2.8 ain't easy, but I think it really gets you into the sweet spot of these cams. It looks like your getting there, just keep plugging away at it. Oh, just to illustrate. Here is something I shot recently of a cross race I did. I've been racing as well as shooting the event so kind of similar to your projects workflow. Shot with a 7D but a t2i should give similar results: Cross Crusade Race #5 Astoria - Chapter 1 on Vimeo

November 9th, 2010, 09:27 PM	#2
Bruce Foreman Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Angelo Texas Posts: 1,518	I wouldn't say you're doing much of anything "wrong". The exposures look good in the sunlit areas, goes some dark when you get away from that into shaded and darker areas. White balance look about OK. What is probably getting at you is (I'm guessing here) you're probably holding the camera out in front of your face and often can't tell anything about exposure on the LCD. You may need some kind of loupe with a magnifying eyepiece. I work with the Hoodman "Cinema Kit Pro" for $209. Consists of the Hoodloupe, 3x magnifying eyepiece, and the Hoodcrane that slips into the camera hot shoe and holds the loupe against the LCD. It excludes most extraneous light and allows you to better "see" what's happening on the LCD. Cinema Kit Pro-Hoodman Corporation I've tried a few solutions and settled on the Hoodman as easiest to use, mount and remove (takes seconds). Even with a loupe on bright sunny days I often have to raise the screen brightness so I can "see" best. At night I also reduce it by about the same amount in the other direction. When you get used to it you find you can actually make exposure judgements. But you have to have SOMETHING or you are shooting "blind".

November 9th, 2010, 11:49 PM	#3
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	ya i was gunna try out the lcdvf 3/2 on b&h its only 160 i think, but if you recommend that one, i may try that one out instead

November 10th, 2010, 08:35 AM	#6
David Quakenbush New Boot Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 16	@ Burk: great shot selection! @Stelios: The hoodman 3x has a focus on the eyepiece. I use it without my glasses all the time -- works great. Note that the hoodman kit I bough used little silicone rubber bands to strap the loupe to the camera. They lasted about 15 minutes before splitting apart.

November 10th, 2010, 11:20 AM	#8
Luke Gates Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: new jersey Posts: 151	IMO get the lcdvf 3:2!!! Its nicer. Or don't take my advice and check out some reviews. I've never seen the hoodman on top of the lcdvf.

November 10th, 2010, 11:27 AM	#9
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	well i find cutting the exposure more than it shows in the lcd on auto helps me, left on auto exposure they do tend to overexpose.

November 10th, 2010, 01:23 PM	#12
Chris Estrella Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Richmond, Canada Posts: 117	I think you might be comparing your work to more cinematic videos (as previously mentioned) where larger rigs are used (dollies, steadicams, and so on) to get those really cool shots. Some of your shots were pretty shaky in the beginning -- were you using an IS lens? You'll be surprised on the difference IS makes, or if it were on a tripod/monopod. The later shots with the bikes were pretty good though, especially given the limited equipment you probably had.

November 10th, 2010, 01:37 PM	#13
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	under exposed rather than over is the option i take if possible.

November 10th, 2010, 01:47 PM	#14
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	that video is really sweet burk! what frame rate do you shoot at for races like that? 30? and ya i would think it would be really hard to shoot a race at 2.8 because everything would go out of focus so quickly, how do you do it? just alot of practice? it's also hard for me to shoot at a lower aperture because its in the middle of the day. maybe i need to invest in some nd filters.

November 10th, 2010, 02:51 PM	#15
Burk Webb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 249	Thanks Michael, the frame rate of the project is 24p - I was also shooting a lot of 60p and slowing it down to 24 for all the slow motion stuff. It's pretty hard to shoot bikes at f2.8 but with a bit of practice it's pretty doable. The nice thing is you have a pretty good idea of where they are going to go, just practice the focus move and you can nail it surprisingly often. Shooting overcranked helps as well because you only need them to be in focus for a little bit :) I am using a follow focus and a SmallHD DP1 to help with focus - and they do help, but it's doable with a bare camera and something like a z finder. Like everything it just takes practice. As for aperture.... I tend to shoot pretty open, f2.8 or lower depending on the lens. I really kind of like that high shutter, strobey look so I usually set exposure with the shutter. I do have a polarizer on the lens but for that video I was shooting at some pretty high shutter speeds. It really helps for the slow motion as well.