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Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD
APS-C sensor cameras including the 80D, 70D, 7D Mk. II, 7D, EOS M and Rebel models for HD video recording.


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Old November 27th, 2010, 01:12 PM   #1
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Buy 7D or Wait for mkii?

Hey, I'm looking to get a 7D rig, but I'm wondering if I should wait until the next edition? I have two XHA1's and a film adapter. I'm selling one of the XHA1's and the film adapter to upgrade to a DSLR. I'm keeping the other cam, but I'll no longer be able to do two cam shoots for clients until I get my DSLR rig. I just don't want to buy a 7D if it's due for an upgrade soon. Also, if I was to purchase a couple of lenses (based on popularity I was thinking Tokina 11-16mm, Canon 50mm f1.4), would there be any risk of them changing the sensor size on the 7D? I guess it wouldn't make sense to get the lenses before the body, but I wanted to start piecing together the kit. What do you all think?
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Old November 27th, 2010, 01:24 PM   #2
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What do I think?

1. Get the camera. What do you possibly think they are going to change in an update that would be waiting for? RAW?

2. Change the sensor size? They use that sensor in a dozen cameras. It's a standard for them and they have an entire line of lenses built around that sensor size. It's not going anywhere.

3. Plenty of people buy lenses in anticipation of cameras. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Go get your camera and get shooting.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #3
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I was thinking the 12 minute time limit, overheating, 2k native res, manual audio, 60p not in 720p, etc.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 02:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Patrick Janka View Post
I was thinking the 12 minute time limit, overheating, 2k native res, manual audio, 60p not in 720p, etc.

12 minute limit is there on purpose because of EU tax regulations. I don't see that changing.

Overheating issue plagues all these camera. Unless they take the mirror out, I don't see this changing any time soon.

2K native? No camera in their entire lineup goes beyond HD. Not even the $5k+ 1DMk4. Can't see this going into a mid-level model before it comes to the high dollar hardware first.

Manual audio is a possibility. But you can't put decent pre-amps in a body that size, so even if they did add it, the audio still wouldn't be good enough to actually use for a decent production.

60p in 1080 would make the overheating WORSE. Can't see that happening.



I say buy the 7D and call it a day. If I was buying right now, I sure as heck wouldn't be waiting...
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Old November 27th, 2010, 05:27 PM   #5
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I love your tough love, Perrone. You are wrong on one count, however. The more expensive cameras aren't necessarily the most up to date. The 5d mkii focusing system is apparently miles behind the 7d, for example.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 06:02 PM   #6
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In the EOS product line, the most expensive camera (the EOS 1Ds Mk. III) is actually the *least* up to date. It's the next one due for replacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
They use that sensor in a dozen cameras.
Incorrect. They use 18MP APS-C sensors in at least three models (the Rebel T2i, the EOS 60D and EOS 7D) but the sensor in each model is unique to itself... in other words, the 18MP APS-C sensor in the 60D is not the same as the one used in the 7D, which is not the same one in the T2i. Each one is different, despite the fact that the size and number of pixels is the same.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 06:10 PM   #7
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3 of those 5 things you want are already present in the upcoming GH2 (no 12 min limit, audio levels & no everheating). The 60d too has manual audio.

2k in DSLR's is probably a long way off - there's not even any pro camcorders cheaper than Red that do 2k that I know of.

It's hard to know how far off a 7d replacement is because it's an entirely new line, but my guess is a 5d update will be here before a 7dmkII.

In any case, don't plan your purchases around cameras which may or may not be coming out in the near future, otherwise you'll never be happy with what you've got. Do your research based on what's already on the market and if you need a new camera now, buy it based on definitive information rather than speculation.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 06:27 PM   #8
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In the EOS product line, the most expensive camera (the EOS 1Ds Mk. III) is actually the *least* up to date. It's the next one due for replacement.
That's why I said 1DMk4. My mistake, I thought it had been released already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
Incorrect. They use 18MP APS-C sensors in at least three models (the Rebel T2i, the EOS 60D and EOS 7D) but the sensor in each model is unique to itself... in other words, the 18MP APS-C sensor in the 60D is not the same as the one used in the 7D, which is not the same one in the T2i. Each one is different, despite the fact that the size and number of pixels is the same.
Yes, my comment wasn't meant to mean that each of the sensors was the same, merely the same SIZE, as his concern was that the size of the sensor might change. And unless I am mistaken, the rebels, the 7D, the 60D, etc. all use APS-C, right? Excepting the 5D and 1D..
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Old November 27th, 2010, 06:29 PM   #9
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I love your tough love, Perrone. You are wrong on one count, however. The more expensive cameras aren't necessarily the most up to date. The 5d mkii focusing system is apparently miles behind the 7d, for example.
And my T2i has a better screen than the 5D and 7D. Yes, features are implemented on newer cameras before older models are replaced. But before a shift in primary technology takes place (like going from 1080 to 2K) I'd make a rather LARGE wager that won't happen in the mid rage cameras before the top end ones.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 12:12 AM   #10
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5d mkiii?

Well, did you think about waiting for the next 5D? Whatever it might be called (5D MKIII?)...
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Old November 28th, 2010, 01:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
In the EOS product line, the most expensive camera (the EOS 1Ds Mk. III) is actually the *least* up to date. It's the next one due for replacement.

Incorrect. They use 18MP APS-C sensors in at least three models (the Rebel T2i, the EOS 60D and EOS 7D) but the sensor in each model is unique to itself... in other words, the 18MP APS-C sensor in the 60D is not the same as the one used in the 7D, which is not the same one in the T2i. Each one is different, despite the fact that the size and number of pixels is the same.
How is the sensor different? I've never heard that? What are the differences?
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Old November 28th, 2010, 02:17 AM   #12
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You don't want to keep waiting for the next 7D or 5D upgrade. It could be coming soon, it could be a while, who knows? (the people that do know won't say)

I heard Vincent Laforet himself speak in a session today and I completely agree with his advice: pick a camera, get it, and start shooting. Otherwise everyone else will be shooting and learning while you're not. Keep up with the game :)

Coincidentally someone did ask him about news for any new camera upgrades, and he would not say a word about it :P
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Old November 28th, 2010, 09:03 AM   #13
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Let your business dictate your purchase.
Do you NEED the camera now?
If yes then purchase a camera, if not then wait.

IMHO, with technology changing so rapidly, and with camera prices for said technology so low,
I tend to look at the new crop of HDSLR cameras as throw-aways.

I put together a nice lens collection which I can use with just about any camera I choose to use...
Red, AG-AF100, GH1, 7D, T2i, 5DII, so forth and so on. All the focal lengths I tend to use from 11mm to 300mm are covered, so that expense is out of the way.
If my business dictates I need another camera, I purchase it and then write it off at tax time.
If my business dictates I need to use a camera for a shoot, but it does not make sense to purchase it,
I simply rent the camera and charge the client.

Good Luck!
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Old November 28th, 2010, 09:11 AM   #14
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Just to add another thought, if you look at the big trend, the thing that may make DSLR shooting so yesterday could be 3D video/filming. The content that wows viewers the most these days is the new shutter based 3D content. Visit any big electronic retail store and you know what I am talking about.
There are already 3D ready video cams on the market. All they do is simply having a shutter lens adaptor and sensor that will sync with the shutter. Its quite conceivable that customers will pay a premium for 3D content rather than the shallow DOF look which most viewers do not even pay attention to. And 3d cameras will probably be the rage in the next few years rather than HD DSLRs.
If 3D videocam is the future, which we don't need Canon to tell us, then large sensor based videocams may be at a disadvantage in creating such content, since in 3D you actually need deep DOF to bring out such 3D effect.
So maybe just when videographers have mastered the techniques for DSLR, they may be using them less and less due to market demand for 3D.
Going back to OP's question, I think with T2i body selling for less than $600, it is probably worth for replacing the film adaptor if for nothing else.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 04:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
But before a shift in primary technology takes place (like going from 1080 to 2K) I'd make a rather LARGE wager that won't happen in the mid rage cameras before the top end ones.

In video, resolution is measured vertically, thus 1920 x 1080 is called 1080. In the film and digital cinema industry resolution is measured horizontally, so 2K is 2048 x 1080, not such a huge difference...
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