The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moire.
 

The first one out there to get a T3i, I would like to see something tested.

Its my theory that if I stick a very wide lens on the camera, even shoot the wide end of the 18-55 off the T2i, and then shoot I shoot at 3 x digital zoom, I should have a better image that the same shot say without digital zoom and at 55mm setting on the zoom. It would makes sense that in the crop for that digital zoom, there should be less line skipping ??

Whose got one already ?

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Mine arrives tomorrow. The results I've seen from 1 test are encouraging. I will know more tomorrow night.

http://cheesycam.com/testing-3x-w-100mm-f2-8l-is-macro/

As far as I understand it, the 3x setting in the zoom feature of the camera should result in a sensor crop where close to 1920x1080 pixels are used from the center of the sensor, resulting in a relatively robust image. As you zoom in towards 10x, the image will degrade in the traditional digital zoom sense.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Cool, Ryan, keep us posted.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Saw this video on YouTube.

YouTube - Canon EOS Rebel T3i Digital Zoom Video Test

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

That was good bloody good

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

very interesting
do you lose any stops of light along the way?

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

First test shot will be up within the hour.

No, no light loss. Just cropping the sensor. Its like how the T3i/T2i/7D sensors are smaller than the 5D sensor, so you get a 1.6x crop factor. Now the "crop" factor is another 3x. Now, the tech behind how this works is not clear, and certainly, there aren't even enough pixels to crop the central 1920x1080 to get 3x, you'd have to go down to 1728px across. Still, its obviously that some sort of crop is occurring to provide this feature. As you zoom in beyond 3x though, you're entering no man's land where pixels are made up, resulting in a poor image.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

You can download the original exported file before web compression at Vimeo.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Thanks Ryan. Hope to see some daylight 100 ISO long distance shots.

Also would like to see a 3x of your widest lens.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

And please, a comparison of the same FOV with and without the 3Xzoom i.e frame the shot, shoot, dial in 3X zoom, move backwards to get the same frame, shoot, repeat for 5X zoom, repeat for 10X zoom (last two steps not really nescecary).

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

I will try to do that. Unfortunately, I work an hour from home and its dark by the time I get in. I can probably get to it Saturday. In the meantime, I expect to see more and more samples popping up all over.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

I did a little test today to check for aliasing

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Thanks for the test Lawrence!

What do you think the flickering is at the bottom?

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Yes, quite interesting demonstration Laurence.

Okay, can you orient us as to what was going on.

On the opening shot, was that 10x digital, with the physical zoom set at wide ? ? And then 3x digital with the physical zoom at wide (18mm) ????

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

The flickering usually happens when you have filmed it from another source??? computor or?

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Alright, I was able to do some tests with the T3i in daylight with my 100-400mm and my 18-135mm. Everything was ISO 100 except for the last scene of the pine tree.

One shot particularly seems to demonstrate the mitigation of aliasing and moire with the 3x zoom turned on. However, noise levels appear to be slightly increased, or at least appear so.

Overall, I am very, very pleased with the performance of this zoom feature when left at the 3x setting. The shots appear nearly indistinguishable from normal shots. I'm not a legit pixel peeper, but upon first pass, I feel like I now have a 3x teleconverter with no light loss.

YouTube - T3i - Zoom Test Comparisons

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

I just uploaded to Vimeo. Will display in standard definition, but you should be able to download the 1080p original file.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

The more I look at the samples, the more I think I would admit that the 3x zoom feature is noticeably softer. However, it is still a viable image. It simply doesn't appear to resolve as much detail as normal. These tests are pretty unscientific though.

Still, download the video from Vimeo and see for yourself. I know I will definitely still use this feature.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Ryan:

Thanks so much for taking the time to do that. I will do a bit more exploration with the footage.

Chris

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

really cool of you to share, thanks

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

great info Chris, thanks for sharing.

So on the T3i you just push the magnifying button to get the 3X zoom ?

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

I downloaded Ryan's footage, and did some playing with the last scene. It is hard to tell because of the different angle of views, but I feel like the details are resolving a bit better in the 3x zoom, because of less line skipping.

However, the real way to test it is to shoot that same scene or a similar one with the lens in wide mode, at 3x, then the zoom lens set at 55mm in normal mode. In that way the field fo view should be pretty close, and which mode resolves detail better should be pretty evident.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

You pull up the "Quick Menu" and under the option to change the frame rate and size (720 60fps, 1080 24fps, etc...) there is an option to switch into 3-10x zoom mode. When activated, it defaults to 3x zoom, and then by pressing a button with the zoom buttons (same as T2i/7D) it zooms in and out at a constant rate.

I'll never use more than the 3x zoom for any serious shots.

But anyways, hopefully the footage gives a glimpse. Chris, I'm definitely interested to do more tests to try out your recommendation to not move the camera and compare the 3x zoom on a wide focal length with the actual equivalent focal length with no zoom.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with the T3i, even with the price bump from a T2i. Articulating screen, manual audio, 3x zoom. Its a pretty swell camera.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Thanks Ryan, look forward to it. (I am getting that nervous stomach feeling. A BestBuy is two blocks from my house.)

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

I am not really sure, I need to check the original footage and see if it is from Vimeo or the original file.
I used my 4GB FAT16 Class 6 SD card which I had in my S95 so it may have been something to do with the card.

Nicely spotted! Yes, that is exactly right.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Interesting tests Ryan. I think the x3 material looks great. I'm going to head down to the camera shop today and check one out in the flesh. I'll take a card and try a few tests myself.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Good deal Mat. I know you did that piece, Hudson's Monarch. Are you thinking of using the 3x feature for macro cinematography?

I know that Emm at Cheesycam.com thought that was an excellent use for it.
T3i 3x Zoom w/ 100mm F/2.8L IS Macro CheesyCam

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Very useful tests Ryan. Thanks

Been playing with it myself. Don't think it works as well as the GH2 crop but it's nice to have. Agreed stick to 3x. The rest is pointless!

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Hey Phil:

Are you saying you have been comparing T3i in 3x mode and regular GH2 footage of the same seen at similar angles of view ? If so, are you saying you can't get as good resolution as the GH2 ?

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

from my VERY brief T3i testing, only got it yesterday. It doesn't seem as sharp at 3x as the GH2 does in teleextender mode. Is the Gh2 directly sampling 1920x1080?

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

I'm also curious about jello. Is the rolling shutter effect reduced in zoom mode?

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

For Phil & Ryan,

Does the zoom work in 720/60p mode? The manual seems to indicate that it's 1080p only.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Here is way I look at what Canon and GH2 are doing. Gh2'd have a smaller chip, that might have approximately the same properties of a similar size section of the Canon APC chip. When the Canon does its 3x, I think it is sampling a smaller portion of chip, than the GH2. Thus there should be even less line skipping, and better detail, or at least very similar. If that is so, may be see less aliasing and moire, and maybe less issue with rolling shutter jello.

I did down load Ryan's .mov original, but he even has had to put that through render because he added titling. So I am not sure how much that render has affected things. Would be nice to test GH2 and Canon side by side to see if Canon actually gave us two camera's in one-- a 4/3's or close and an APC.

Also, as I have posted in other posts, and at the Magic Lantern development web, if Canon's code is selecting an area of the chip and sampling only that, can we also possibly through a magic lantern manipulation, get the Canon only to read a letter box portion of the 16 x 9, decreasing line skipping for a 235 aperature.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

I haven't tried it myself, but I've read that 60p doesn't do the 3x zoom.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

I haven't used the GH2, but that doesn't surprise me at all. I would expect its tele extender mode to be more robust. I think the T3i is cropping down to a little below 1080p and then digitally scaling back up. I think...

Hard enough to tell that I still find it a very worthwhile feature.

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Does the Canon 60D have this x3 zoom feature? I have chosen to buy the 60D over the 600D for other reasons but this zoom feature is nice to have.

Stelios

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

No, the 60D doesn't. However, its body has a nicer feel to it, more like the 7D I hear. Also, you can manually set the white balance to a kelvin value.

It seems that Canon just keeps adding a little feature here and there is all. Some rumblings about the 5D III and an improved video codec...

Re: The New T3i - Will digital zoom allow normal shooting without Aliasing and Moir
 

Some direct comparison tests. Download original file at Vimeo.