ND Filters
 

I need to buy ND filters for my Canon 70-200mm lens and also the 17-50mm lens.
I will need a 77mm and 72mm fitting, and also in different ND Filter strengths, but I don't want to have to pay a fortune for filter lenses.

Can anyone recommend filters they use that do the job well enough without costing a small fortune - perhaps picked up from ebay?

I don't fancy the fader filters as I've heard mixed/poor reports from them.

Re: ND Filters
 

Martin,

You're right to steer clear of the variable ND filters.

Buying a set works out cheaper. I have a couple of sets of Tiffen NDs with 0.6, 0.9 and 1.2 filters.

Of the cheaper makes, Marumi are pretty decent.

Re: ND Filters
 

Thanks Liam. At £30+ per filter it's a bit more than I wanted to pay to be honest, and if I need 3 of each for my 72mm & 77mm then that's £180!

Are the cheaper (£10 per filter) ones on ebay so bad? Has anyone tried any of these and if so what was the result?

Re: ND Filters
 

Martin - you're shooting through what - 13 elements of 17 - 50 zoom? Now you want to add a new front element to this line-up in the form of an ND and that's fine, but remember the front element is THE most important element in the fight against flare, and adding a new one to Canon's line-up shouldn't (I suggest) be governed by ebay pricing.

The fact that it may not be neutral is not such a problem with post production, but the reduction in lens hood efficiency should mean that you head off looking for the finest mult-coated NDs you can find. A lot of peeps think flare is only a problem when shooting into the sun; not so. A piece of white paper in the frame can flare the light very effectively.

tom.

Re: ND Filters
 

As per previous post why stick a cheap filter on the front on great lenses, if you don't want to buy multiple sets why not look at a matte box with drop in filters, yes way more expensive but you only need one set for all lenses.

Re: ND Filters
 

While agree about sticking poor filters on great lenses is a bad choice, the 7D is not 'great' video (just my IMHO). I am not trying to inflame here.

I shot a doc recently on a 7D - over a one year period - maybe 120 hours and I am underwhelmed - all with L glass. On the last shoot I also took a GH2 and the difference in the same scenes was astounding. I have to soften up the GH2 images quite a lot!

So would a variable ND be so noticeable than a fixed higher quality on a 7D .... I am not holding my breath.

Re: ND Filters
 

The vari-ND makes purists frown because you're adding 6 extra elements in front of your zoom The sandwich layer doesn't need to be coated, but you're still left with four air-to-glass surfaces and you hope you're filming through four sheets of plane parallel glass. The more expensive the filter, the more plane parallel they'll tend to be.

Some folk have also remarked upon the vari-ND's ability to alter the w/b as one is rotated relative to the other, but none of this alters the fact that it's a really quick way to alter the exposure at the chip.

tom.

Re: ND Filters
 

Martin - you should only buy the filters in the larger size. A step-down ring will allow you to use the 77mm filters on your 72mm lens. This will save you quite a bit of money.

Re: ND Filters
 

Don't mean to take this off topic, but was your 7D set up properly? I have been using one for the past 1.5 years and am very happy with it. There are the know challenges, but they can be worked around. I have heard good things about the GH2, but it's codec leaves a lot to be desired. (Not that the H.264 the Canon shoots is that much better!)

My previous camera was a Sony EX1 which I liked, but I much prefer the look of the 7D. To each his own.

Daniel Weber

Re: ND Filters
 

Back on topic, this Tiffen kit from B&H is good for the money. I wouldn't put anything cheaper in front of my lenses.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/729107-REG/Tiffen_W77INDNDKT_77mm_Indie_Neutral_Density.html
Daniel Weber

Re: ND Filters
 

Screw-on ND filters are great, but it's a hassle to change them out if you want to use the same filter on multiple lenses during a shoot.

Instead of paying $264.50 plus shipping for a set of Tiffen screw-ons, here's a relatively inexpensive ($292.90 plus shipping) matte box solution:

Cinetactics Matteblox soft matte box: $99

Cinetactics 4X4 filter holders: 2 for $16.50

Cavision 4X4 glass 0.3 ND filter: $59.95

Cavision 4X4 glass 0.6 ND filter: $59.95

Cavision 4X4 glass 0.9 ND filter: $57.50

Re: ND Filters
 

A cheaper & more compact alternative to a matte box is the Cokin filter system that uses a screw-on holder & drop-in filters COKIN Creative System - Filters A/P/Z/X - Question & Answers It's effectively a mini matte box without the barn doors using smaller sized & cheaper filters.

Re: ND Filters
 

I still say its almost impossible to see much difference in filter quality when looking at 7D footage.

Anyway - here is the answer for this from Tiffen:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/766430-REG/Tiffen_77VND_77MM_VARIABLE_ND_FILTER.html

Re: ND Filters
 

"resin" filters are plastic. in general, they suck. don't believe me ? here are some tests of charts shot thru a resin and glass filter here Glass vs Resin Filters Review

I'd recommend against using the cheap plastic filters, any of them.

with a long lens like 200mm, the difference will be apparent. the plastic filter will significantly soften the image.

you get what you pay for.

Re: ND Filters
 

Looking at it I can only put the softening down to the plastic filter having non plane-parallel sides, i.e. it's acting like a very weak lens or a soft-focus screen. I'm surprised at that because I'd expect the plastic filter to be a high pressure injection moulding,where the money's not in the filter, it's in the production tooling.

It would suggest that more expensive plastic filters are every bit as good as their glass counterparts, as 90% of spectacle wearers and 100% of cataract / contact lens users look through plastic lenses all day long.

tom.

Re: ND Filters
 

Well spotted! I didn't realise that Tiffen had launched a variable ND filter & at a pretty decent price too at only $64 more than the Fader ND from LCW. It's available for pre-order here in the UK & predictably at £203.99 ($334) is vastly overpriced compared to the US price even allowing for 20% VAT (Sales Tax).

Re: ND Filters
 

No mention made about the surface coating, though at that price I'd expect nothing less than a film of gold.

Re: ND Filters
 

thanks everyone. I like the look of the Tiffen though. I would have said no to the other variable ND filters - but Tiffen are pretty good and am sure this filter works well.............at least I hope so?!!!!

Re: ND Filters
 

the filter I used was a more expensive one, a Lee. the faces are parallel enough. the problem is that plastic is acting as a low pass filter - losing high frequency detail, ie making the image softer. just because something is clear doesn't mean it can transmit high frequency information.

this also has to do with how big an area you are looking thru the filter. the higher the focal length, the smaller area you are seeing thru. imperfections / index refraction ect become more critical. if you eyes could zoom in by a factor of 5 or 10, plastic lenses wouldn't work so great.

there is one minor upside : if you are having problems with moire a resin filter can soften the image a bit and sometimes make it go away.

here is another thing - filters, even the really expensive ones aren't multicoated. maybe some cheap ones are but not anything made by tiffen or schneider

Re: ND Filters
 

Steve, you say, 'filters, even the really expensive ones aren't multicoated'. Are you serious? It's not anytime soon I plan to replace my camera's front element with an uncoated sheet of glass or plastic. If Sony or Canon thought that was a good idea they'd be saving themselves some money.

Re: ND Filters
 

yup. you may find some filters with coatings on them, but almost none do. with a screw on filter, there isn't a real problem with reflections because the lens front element is coated, and there is no light leaking from the edges. however with a matte box, a light block is critical for stopping reflections from the filter.

reflections in lenses is a different matter because of all the glass involved. if you have used older glass with fewer coatings you'll see they flare much more nicely then modern glass where you have to work to get it to flare.... or put a filter in front to catch some light.

its really not that bad. however, a matte box becomes your best friend for keeping stray light off when yo don't want flares / contrast loss.

real optical glass vs common glass vs plastic makes a difference in flare characteristics too for items in the shot too.

of course then you have filters that make flare like Pro Mists which is part of their diffusion look. fog filters work great when you can flare them.

it all depends on application and desired look. its nothing to loose sleep over. in general your going to be happier with optical glass filters, especially ND's most of the time.

Re: ND Filters
 

I got the LCW vari-ND and I hate it. I went with the 82mm version with step down rings for all my lenses so its compatible with everything. No matter the lens, either prime (28, 35, 50, 85) or zoom (24-105, 70-200) I get that stupid X after only 3-4 stops max. So yes technically it will cut 8+ stops of light, but only 3-4 are usable. What a rip. The Genus version appears to be from the same manufacturer. I've debated trying the pricier Singh-Ray or just getting 2 or 3 Tiffen IR's that supposedly won't cut resolution or funk with color. I shoot out in bright light quite often so some sort of ND is a vital part of my kit. For now I'm making do with the LCW. I'm going to be in NYC in a few weeks - so I'll be heading to B&H to find a better option.

Re: ND Filters
 

do you think you'll go with the Tiffen Variable ND then?

Re: ND Filters
 

I use the Genus Fader ND - their marketing director confirmed to me they are sourced from a different manufacturer than the LCW.

I also use the 82mm with step down rings.

I use my Genus a lot and am very happy with the results (for video). Four stops is all you will get with any Fader ND. The cross you refer to is a physical phenomenon all Fader ND's will get irrespective of manufacturer - It's called Haidinger's brush or something and it occurs with the polarisation and the light waves.

For photography - I use HiTech ND's (resign) as I do feel the less glass you shoot through for photos - the better the result. For video it doesn't seem to matter as much - but I am only an amateur.

The Genus Fader ND kicks in on the video below at 2:30 to 3:10 and it saturates the colours in the golden hour really well. It's a glass filter and I was really happy with the price compared to the LCW and the Singh-Ray.


PS: If you really want perfection you can drop $580 on a Schneider True-Match Variable Neutral Density Filter: https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecom...D=466&IID=8088

Re: ND Filters
 

I knew about the cross, its just frustrating that the Vari-ND's are being marketed as offering 8 stops and the max usable range is barely half that. For what I paid I could (or should) have just bought three of the Tiffen IR ND filters to cut 3 (0.9), 5 (1.5) and 7 (2.1) stops and called it good. I'm going to check them out firsthand before buying, but I'm pretty sure that's the route I'm going to go.

Re: ND Filters
 

Hi Jeff,

I really love that opening shot, any chance you would share what settings you used?

Some great shots in there,

J

Re: ND Filters
 

A lovely little film Jeff - quite delightful! You must have the patience of a saint, young man.

Re: ND Filters
 

Thanks All - was just putting in a plug for my very reasonable Genus ND Fader. I have to be honest - was really worried when I got it that I didn't invest in something 'high quality' but I have been pleased with it.

Sure it probably wouldn't stand the test of a big screen - but for weddings, events and the like - maybe corproate work it will be fine.

Chris, they were marketed as 8 - 10 stop when I bought mine. They now say 4 stop.

Johnathon, the opening is acheived in editing a simple star photo rotated under a soft edge crop with the crop reducing during the animation. The sunrise is a real timelapse. I had to do this to it as my soft edge ND fogged up so I didn't want to waste it.

To replicate this via a real timelapse in the city - a 30 - 60 second exposures will get you a star timelapse that turns into a sunrise. Aperture around F8 - 16, ISO 200 - 400. Depends on the available light - I only tried one once and used Adobe RAW to brighten the start photos and darken the sunrise - to balance out the exposure. It's guess work to be honest as you never know how the sunrise will be. Search for 'The Mountain' on vimeo for the best example I have seen or visit Timescapes Timelapse and click to the forum for all the help you will ever need.

Thanks, Tom - 11 days off work thanks to Easter rolled into the Royal Wedding rolled into May Day. What better way to spend it than getting up early and capturing some of this beautiful landscape?

PS: another thing I learned in this if your going to timelapse mist on water - 1 second intervals would be best - I used 7 seconds like I normally do for a sunrise and it was way to fast on playback.


Regards

Jeff

Re: ND Filters
 

Jeff - that is some beautiful work in a heaven on earth. Good for the soul. An example of what can be done with inexpensive equipment in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. We get too caught up in technical numbers when it is more about the skill.

Re: ND Filters
 

In the South of France I am often shooting in very bright sunshine so I have been contemplating just getting the darkest Tiffen ND filter & changing the ISO to adjust exposure.

Re: ND Filters
 

right - have plumped for the Tiffen 77MM VARIABLE ND FILTER 77VND from B&H. Have a friend over there just now and hopefully he'll be able to bring it back for me - if not then it'll be a couple of weeks till I get it, but will post how I get on if I do.

Nice shots there Jeff, the early morning mist on loch stuff is lovely. I sometimes pass my local lake and see that and think "...I wish I had time to stop off and capture that!!!"

Re: ND Filters
 

Thanks John and Martin all the best with the Tiffen I am sure you will enjoy the impact it has on your video.

I think the Canon 5D & 7D have opened a whole new world to me - before that I was a home video person at Birthdays and Christmas.

This camera has me out and about photographing landscapes and all sorts. Canon has a lot to answer for in terms of my sleep cycle.

Re: ND Filters
 

Thanks Jeff, like it