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Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD
APS-C sensor cameras including the 80D, 70D, 7D Mk. II, 7D, EOS M and Rebel models for HD video recording.


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Old June 4th, 2011, 05:03 PM   #16
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Re: help me understand rolling shutter

Jon, I understand your point and appreciate your perspective however, I personally think that DSLRs (with decent support, paired with proper sound gear) is perfectly competent for documentary shooting as long as you have an understanding of your equipment and its capabilities and limits.

Our company produces high quality documentary style videos using only DSLRs but, our subjects don't require too much dramatic camera movement and action.

Truth be told, had I the resources and time I would have shot the above linked footage on a HVX200 or something more applicable for the job and had I edited the footage, I would have probably not have included the shot with the shutter roll distortion (or made efforts to fix it).
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Old June 5th, 2011, 06:35 AM   #17
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Re: help me understand rolling shutter

In many cases a DSLR can be fine in doc work ... but not the majority given the drawbacks especially when you cannot choose location or even subject which is my case in docs.

But the biggest compromise that many do not realize until they start shooting is that you end up with a larger crew!! Yes I got into DSLR's due to the small form factor - great for docs, but when you have to build a rig to shoot with and use an assistant to record audio ... what is the point?

A rig that looks like a christmas tree and is completely off-balance?

Slightly off topic but it is a serious factor.
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Old June 5th, 2011, 09:47 AM   #18
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Re: help me understand rolling shutter

DSLRs for documentary...it really depends on what kind of documentary you're doing. For general docu work I would never encourage somebody to buy a DSLR. The lack of auto focus, 12 minutes rec time, no motorized zoom, to shallow dof, rolling shutter, moire, form factor, etc. These are all factors that for general docu work are totally inappropriate. But if you can get around them somehow or if your documentary work isn't ENG type then by all means use a DSLR - why not...

As for the rolling shutter: if your work is going to be more static then no problem. But if you plan on doing ENG the no go.

But this all depends on your quality standards and of those for whom your doing this.

Here a rather graphic display of rolling shutter: YouTube - ‪CMOS Vs CCD Rolling Shutter Effect + Jello Effect Kawasaki ZX-11‬‏
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Old June 5th, 2011, 10:16 AM   #19
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Re: help me understand rolling shutter

Nothing wrong with double system sound, a focus puller, careful panning to avoid judder and 12 minute limit before needing to 'reload' - but if I'm going to follow a film workflow - I'd rather shoot on film.

And yes, I started in television when news was 'film at 10 O'clock' back in the 70's.

The DSLR workflow and image has it's place in doc work, but so does everything else, as other's have said - understanding the needs and limitations of subject matter, crew demands, format and delivery is key.
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Old June 5th, 2011, 12:57 PM   #20
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Re: help me understand rolling shutter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Braeley View Post
...but when you have to build a rig to shoot with and use an assistant to record audio ... what is the point?
I don't think a larger crew is really required. But you can't just buy the camera and shoot either.

If I wanted to be a one man doc crew, I'd get an EVF and build a rig that puts the camera on my shoulder for better balance. For audio, I'd run a juicedLink preamp and record into the camera on manual gain. One channel would have a small, light shotgun on the rig. The other channel would be used with a handheld mic that I can reach closer to the talent, or a lav for set interviews. For a lens, I'd go with a normal zoom with IS along with a fast normal prime for low light as my core kit. Bring along a tripod that is made to carry the camera on the rig. Snap and go. Build a case or backpack that can hold the rig with minimal assembly and disassembly.

Ideally, you would have one assistant, regardless of the camera you use. That person can lug the tripod, arrange interviews, get release forms signed, and operate a boom. They could carry a preamp, recorder, and a break-away cable to your camera/preamp if you want the option for higher quality sound in addition to the cut-and-go sound recorded into the camera.

You can almost always build a kit for a DSLR that meets your needs. For events, that kit might include a cheap HD camcorder on a cheap, fixed tripod to help you bridge the 12-minute limit. Just don't expect a DSLR to do everything you need right out of the box.
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Old June 5th, 2011, 04:05 PM   #21
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Re: help me understand rolling shutter

I always shoot with an assistant - as I only shoot in Asia and I have a translator and usually a driver with me. I have a full time assistant in Beijing so I am lucky I can do this. I always have 2 or 3 people with me.
But many of the new users to DSLR - shooting for the first time are simply lacking this infrastructure which took me 12 years to build up. I think a lot of folks underestimate this and forget that DSLR shooting usually means more planning than normal.
Once you take this into account the main reason many go the DSLR route - the low budget - is often the wrong reason thats all.
I used a 7D on my last film because I needed very small form factor (I also own a EX3). But at ther end of the day I would always prefer a full motion picture cam ... thats why I think the new FS-100 is a good buy for me.
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Old June 5th, 2011, 05:30 PM   #22
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Re: help me understand rolling shutter

Scarlet should be a killer doc cam too. The sensor speed should be quick, so rolling shutter should be minimal. It won't have aliasing. The DOF will have the classic 16mm look. It will have built-in balanced stereo inputs. The zoom range of the fixed is perfect for most projects, though for low light, one would want a cam with interchangeable lenses. A Scarlet and a DSLR would make a nice pair.
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Old June 6th, 2011, 11:24 AM   #23
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Re: help me understand rolling shutter

They just announced 120fps at 2k on the Scarlett. But shipping in reasonable numbers - meaning actually buying one will be next year I think. They say fall but with Red you add 6 more months always.

So yes the 8x fixed will be good for docs but with a small sensor not a movie camera for me. the elns alone is worth it though.
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Old June 6th, 2011, 12:51 PM   #24
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Re: help me understand rolling shutter

I'd call it a "medium" sensor, rather than small, but point taken.
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