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Old October 15th, 2011, 09:34 PM   #1
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Critique - Our first Webisode

Ive been in New Zealand for 3 months now and at first I just intended to make a small ski edit of our trip. After filming for a week or so we found we had a massive amount of footage so we decided to make 3 webisodes, which has subsequently turned into 6 as we keep getting more footage. These are not all skiing related but the first one predominantly is.

I hope you enjoy our first webisode and please leave comments on what you thought of it and how we could improve the edit.

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Old October 17th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #2
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

Anyone got any thoughts on the edit?
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Old October 17th, 2011, 03:37 PM   #3
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

Hey Paddy,

Since you're asking for critiques... there's a history of honesty around here as opposed to just fluffing your ego, so consider that. We try to push each other to reach a little higher.

The idea of documenting your trip is great. The first 35 seconds is pretty tight. But then the apartment stuff got tired pretty fast. You've got some cool skiing footage there, nicely exposed. But really you could have condensed that to 60 seconds or so, as it was the same jumps over the same jump.

The rest of it may be interesting to you guys... Sometimes less is more...

It's just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing more (but less of more... : )
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Old October 19th, 2011, 04:57 PM   #4
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

Thanks for your honest opinion, this is the sort of advise I need. I do agree that parts of the edit get a little tedious and that if I cut it down it should make it a more entertaining watch.
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Old October 23rd, 2011, 09:21 PM   #5
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

someone already said, apt stuff is a bit much. one thing, if you can afford a European ski trip in september, you can afford a steadicam
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Old October 25th, 2011, 04:10 PM   #6
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

We were using a glidecam 2000 pro, but it wasn't perfectly balanced. It did however get us far steadier footage than we would have otherwise got.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 05:50 AM   #7
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

Relevance is also important I started watching and after a minute I was thinking to myself why am I watching someone else's home/holiday video, I'm sure family & friends will love it. Since it's a six part series ask yourself why would the viewer want to watch episode two, besides mom of course?
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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:52 AM   #8
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

I have some questions and a few thoughts to share.

What was the purpose of the video? What was your storyline?

I ask the question because once I watched it I had no idea what the story was. It started out talking about a ski trip and yes we saw skiing but there was nothing tying all the segments together. It was a collage and not a story. Cool for something to have fun with your friends but if you are looking to do serious work then you need to understand the importance of the story.

Another question - Why should we care about what was happening in the room at that level of detail? What does it really contribute to the overall piece? It won't make sense to anyone that does not know you. If you wanted to establish that you were getting ready for a big day on the hill you could have done it with a series of cuts showing some of the action in the kitchen and getting dressed then sprinkled in a couple of longer shots with sound bites setting up the skiing to come. A bit of banter talking about who was going to do what new trick (or something like that). Set it up and make us want to watch the next segment.

Before you start your next shoot I recommend creating storyline for your film. Make sure your storyline has a beginning, a middle, and an ending. Take your storyline writeup with you on the shoot and follow it. Bring it back and use it to edit. Ask lots of questions as you are cutting. Especially WHY. Why is a powerful question that will help you find what is important in your storytelling. Do that and your next film will be better.

Strictly my opinion.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 10:24 AM   #9
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

Thanks for your honest opinion, this sort of feedback is really helpful.

The problem for me is that I don't really want to go out with a script as such when im filming a trip to New Zealand. We are not and never will be good actors, i wanted to capture the things that we did spontaneously without planning or scripting. I feel that when you start scripting something like a trip taken with some mates it all becomes a bit fake and takes away from how much fun it actually was (just my opinion).

If you didn't enjoy it then I am very sorry, our aim was to entertain and as we (myself and two friends) are doing these webisodes on our own we are going to create something that is entertaining to us. I have a feeling that what we found funny is only found funny by certain people. The british sense of humour is a little different than the american sense of humour. I hope that there are some americans who did find it funny but i'm assuming that the vast majority that did were british. I have found from posting in other forums that I has not just been my friends who have been amused by it.

The absence of a story seems to be a running theme in feedback given on my edits. I do however very rarely find edits based around skiing that have a story line. I would love more feedback as to how I could weave a storyline into my ski edits as this seems to be the way that I can appeal to those who are neither people I know or people interested in skiing.

I was also not just looking to show off the editing but also the quality of the filming. For me looking at a nice image with good image quality i very important in an edit. I know this may be seen a just looking at the 'pretty images' but I feel you can appreciate good image quality.

Please keep the feedback and ideas coming it all really helps?
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Old October 30th, 2011, 10:38 AM   #10
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas de Kock View Post
Relevance is also important I started watching and after a minute I was thinking to myself why am I watching someone else's home/holiday video, I'm sure family & friends will love it. Since it's a six part series ask yourself why would the viewer want to watch episode two, besides mom of course?
I think that your views on filming can be strongly dictated by what you are interested in and what field you specialise in (not that i am anything near professional). I see that you specialise in Weddings and Events and in my opinion it is alot more about the actual story behind it, with this sector you don't just want a montage of random shots.

For me when im watching ski edits (the area im most interested in) I look for something that is filmed and produced when with good image quality and pleasing on the eye. I see enough edits filmed on gopros with amazing skiing but the footage is shaky and the image quality poor. I would rather watch better filming and image quality with mediocre skiing than a gopro edit with amazing skiing. I hope you get where im coming from.

I would love to hear any suggestions as to how I can weave story lines into my edits?
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Old October 30th, 2011, 03:36 PM   #11
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

Paddy overall quality is good, I'm critical because you asked for it all comments are strictly in my opinion and taste so always take advice with a grain of salt, the beginning was interesting with the voice over then you stopped talking and it all got boring. I think to keep the story going you need to keep on talking, like most successful blogs writing is key, describe feelings, anticipation, scenery creatively and remember people love good story tellers. This is the ultimate example of great filming making: The Art of FLIGHT
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Old October 30th, 2011, 05:24 PM   #12
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

Thought I'd throw in my two penneth. It's pretty good for an early effort. I mostly agree with the other comments however. I'm sure that, to you and your circle, watching each other ladding about is hilarious and charming and honest. As an intro to a wider audience it was mostly annoying. I don't know you guys. I don't know who does or does not do the dishes at home and really don't care. I'm not even really sure what I'm here to watch at this point. Are you guys any good? Are you just learning? What are you hoping to accomplish? Where in New Zealand is this? Is it a hard course? Anything special about this mountain/resort/whatever? Why'd you go there?

You might be thinking "Dude, it's, like, two minutes" (in a more well spoken way) but that's make or break for something this long. I've sat there for three minutes by the time the skiing starts and I know nothing and am mildly annoyed. The skiing had better be pretty spectacular.
Oh, it's not.

I'm sure if I appreciated the skill involved I'd be more impressed, but I'm just a lowly audience member.
I'm sure you've watched every badly gopro'd video on the net and decided to do better. And congrats, you have. Trouble is that just means that my expectations are raised to the basic standard and forgiveness for amateurishness is severely diminished. You've selected good shots and edited them competently, with (mostly) decent sound, thought through some interesting titles and done some decent voice over giving me the impression of some structure and professionalism. That just shifts you up into the realm of people with multiple cameras and cranes and so on as routine, so you better be damn good and damn interesting.

Look, I'm not ragging on the effort. I'm just trying to describe what you're up against.
It is a problem that I don't generally like this sort of thing. But I have for a fact sat through several Endless Summers for 90 and some minutes each and I cannot stand surfies and surfing. If you have multiple points of interest every skiing shot doesn't have to blow my mind and I'll keep watching.

You do good voice over. I wager you've got quite a bit of random coverage (and if you don't, get creative). You don't have to set out to script a story (as in plot arc etc, distinct from a storyline in technical terms) for the whole thing for this kind of effort. You just have to give people enough context for them to do it themselves.
Good luck with it.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 11:50 AM   #13
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

Hey Paddy,

Like I said in my first reply, the tradition here when it comes to critiquing is to critique honestly. If we wanted someone to pad our ego's, we'd just show it to our families. Murray and Nicholas made some excellent points. Eventually, if you stick with it... you'll become your own best (or worst) critic. And then you won't need us. It's all about progression. Then one day you'll show us some work, and we'll go... "Paddy... that is freakin' awesome dude!, that edit is tight. The blend of sound and imagery is simply amazing !... how the hell did you get that shot?

This one is admittedly in another league... But so is the Art of Flight... This is Mickey Smith, the Dark Side of the Lens... freaking amazing... Stick with it...

Relentless Energy Drink fuels Short Stories 2010: Dark Side Of The Lens - YouTube
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Old October 31st, 2011, 12:46 PM   #14
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Bartram View Post
Thanks for your honest opinion, this sort of feedback is really helpful.

The problem for me is that I don't really want to go out with a script as such when im filming a trip to New Zealand. We are not and never will be good actors, i wanted to capture the things that we did spontaneously without planning or scripting. I feel that when you start scripting something like a trip taken with some mates it all becomes a bit fake and takes away from how much fun it actually was (just my opinion).

If you didn't enjoy it then I am very sorry, our aim was to entertain and as we (myself and two friends) are doing these webisodes on our own we are going to create something that is entertaining to us.
Please don't confuse my thoughts with a dislike for the video. I thought it was fun.

Also don't think that you have to carry a script with you to shoot a documentary style film. You only need a storyline which helps guide you in your shot selections. Its not a set of handcuffs but a tool to help you craft your film.

Have you ever watched any of Warren Millers ski films? These are good examples of having a very loose story and some great cinematography. I love watching these things.

Keep shooting.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 05:54 PM   #15
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Re: Critique - Our first Webisode

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Originally Posted by Ken Diewert View Post
Hey Paddy,

Like I said in my first reply, the tradition here when it comes to critiquing is to critique honestly. If we wanted someone to pad our ego's, we'd just show it to our families. Murray and Nicholas made some excellent points. Eventually, if you stick with it... you'll become your own best (or worst) critic. And then you won't need us. It's all about progression. Then one day you'll show us some work, and we'll go... "Paddy... that is freakin' awesome dude!, that edit is tight. The blend of sound and imagery is simply amazing !... how the hell did you get that shot?

This one is admittedly in another league... But so is the Art of Flight... This is Mickey Smith, the Dark Side of the Lens... freaking amazing... Stick with it...

Relentless Energy Drink fuels Short Stories 2010: Dark Side Of The Lens - YouTube
Ive seen the dark side of the lens and it was probably the edit that got me into filming, i love it, one of, if not my favourite edit of all time. I really appreciate all of your feedback and i do see the need for more of a story. My problem with my humble attempt at a webisode series is that i have left NZ now so i need to try to do my best with the footage ive got and maybe make a few voice overs to try and weave a story into it.

I will keep trying and I keep posting. Thanks for the feedback it is all most appreciated.
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