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Canon EOS Crop Sensor for HD
APS-C sensor cameras including the 80D, 70D, 7D Mk. II, 7D, EOS M and Rebel models for HD video recording.


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Old January 4th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #1
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Need help with a shot

I'm shooting a music video in a few weeks and I was wondering if some of you could help me with a shot. I'm using a 7D and a T2i mostly. The shot is an exterior, tripod shot during the early morning (magic hour) of the inside of a barn (http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/s...illow/barn.jpg). * this image was taken during the day on auto settings so don't use this as a reference of the look I'm going for, it just shows the setup / scene.

I plan on putting the camera much lower and further away for a better frame for the actual video. I would also like the background (the outside part that is over-exposed in the image) to be exposed correctly and balanced and I think shooting early morning will help me achieve this. Ultimately I want the inside of the barn and the exterior shot that you can see through the barn to all be balanced. I want like a magical looking grey, winter, film like look.

I know pictures styles were discussed a lot a few years ago and I was wondering if they are still the way to go to achieve an image that can me graded really nicely in post? I plan on shooting 1080 / 24fps with the lowest ISO possible and widest aperture settings (2.8). I plan on using the "superflat" picture style and then having it graded in post to give it the look I want. I wish I had a nice prime to shoot this with, but for now all I have is the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS lens.

Any thoughts, comments, ideas?

Thanks!

Last edited by Oliver Darden; January 4th, 2012 at 09:31 PM.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 10:16 PM   #2
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Re: Need help with a shot

Depends on the type of song and genre it's in plus the look you're going for. Honestly it can go mulitple ways. I'd need a little more before I can offer any real opinion.

Also, if you have a few dollars aside, I'd recommend starting with a Pentax 50mm 1.4 with an adapter. I bought 1 for like $45 on ebay, real clean. It would be a cheap but good start in my opinion.

As for your location, I like the look of the barn. I'd actually like to open up the background by lighting the stalls in the rear. Not sure about going superflat. Not knowing how the song goes, I wonder why not go for a warmer feel, after all, with all of the wood, it would pop more (IMHO).
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Old January 4th, 2012, 10:43 PM   #3
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Re: Need help with a shot

Ryan, you have a good idea about maybe lighting the stalls, that might be a good way to keep my ISO down and also get a nice image IN and outside the barn. "Superflat" is just the picture style that I want to shoot with that will allow my color guy a lot of room to grade however I want. In the end it (after post) this shot will have a very warm but at the same time cold winter looking feel. Sort of blue / grey but vibrant at the same time if that make sense.

I will definitely check out the Pentax 50mm 1.4 as an option. An 1.4 would be very useful.

This one?
Pentax Normal SMCP-FA 50mm f/1.4 Autofocus Lens 20817 B&H Photo
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Old January 5th, 2012, 12:40 AM   #4
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Re: Need help with a shot

OK, I get you.

The feature I directed last year was shot very flat as well. I wanted to go for a film noir look but because color correction is not my thing I left it to the colorist and DP to set the pace.

Also, I'm a fan of 100% manual lenses. Old school stuff. Check these:

ASAHI PENTAX 50mm f/1.4 PRIME M42 SCREW MOUNT LENS | eBay

Pentax - SMC Pentax-M (1:1.4, 50mm) Camera Lens....FREE S&H!!! | eBay

Asahi Pentax Super-Takumar 50mm 1:1.4 (50 mm F1.4) for Spotmatic | eBay

ASAHI 50MM F1.4 SMC PENTAX M LENS IN K MOUNT,/145723 | eBay

The last one I listed is what I have (K mount) but overpriced if you ask me.

Do you have a follow focus? Ultimately when seeking a lens that requires an adapter, you want those that don't need aditional optics (a la the Canon FD mounts) because they loose a stop or two of light. But Pentax I found is a good solid lens. If you have a few extra dollors, you might even be able to snap up a Nikon 1.4 instead.

But for fast stuff and because the Canon EF mount alternatives are so expensive, I'd go with Nikon and Pentax old school glass. If the dollars allow then I'd move up to actual Canon L stuff (and to be honest, I probably won't even do that).
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Old January 5th, 2012, 02:36 AM   #5
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Re: Need help with a shot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Darden View Post
. In the end it (after post) this shot will have a very warm but at the same time cold winter looking feel. Sort of blue / grey but vibrant at the same time if that make sense.
Mmmmm--doesn't quite make sense they way you are describing it. Cold is cold, warm is warm. Do you mean that you want the exterior to play cold and the interior warm...?

As far as shooting this at the time of day that interior and exterior will balance; certainly doable (just make sure that whatever action is involved in the shot is well-rehearsed so that you will be ready when the light is perfect). However, this plan only works if there is enough light within the barn to exposure properly and look the way you want. As shown in the picture, much of the exposure inside the barn is provided by daylight, so obviously once that has dropped, so will the interior.

If you have the option to do so, one way to ensure success is to pre-light the barn the night before and figure out your exposure etc. at that point. When you shoot with the daylight level matching that interior, it should have little to no effect on the interior itself. If you are indeed going for a warm interior/cold exterior, balance the camera around 4200K, which will cause the fading exterior light to go quite blue, and any 2900 to 3200 (incandescent practicals to film lights) to read as warm.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 03:31 AM   #6
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Re: Need help with a shot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Kincaid View Post
Also, I'm a fan of 100% manual lenses. Old school stuff. Check these:
Thanks for the links Ryan, these are great lens. That ASAHI PENTAX set looks really great for the price. And yes I have a follow focus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Papert View Post
Mmmmm--doesn't quite make sense they way you are describing it. Cold is cold, warm is warm. Do you mean that you want the exterior to play cold and the interior warm...?
Charles, yes, exactly, sorry about the confusing wording.

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Originally Posted by Charles Papert View Post
balance the camera around 4200K
Also, excuse my ignorance, but that means I should white balance for the tungsten lights inside the barn correct?
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Old January 5th, 2012, 07:53 AM   #7
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Re: Need help with a shot

Actually I'm suggesting you split the white balance between tungsten (3200K) and daylight (nominally 5600, but at the time of day you are planning to shoot, more like 8000K and up) by setting it at 4200K. This will give the tungsten units a warmer, "oil lamp" tone and keep the daylight cold and blue. You may want to drive the setting even higher, like 4600 or 4800K. Best attack will be to use a decently calibrated monitor and experiment. If you want to really drive the warm/cool vibe to an extreme (on a music video, more than likely!), you can add 1/2 to full CTO gel to your tungsten units and set the camera at 3200, which will give you a similar warm tone but will push the daylight even bluer, towards cobalt.

Not that I worked with that particular palette but seeing the picture of the barn reminded me of the location we used on this:
Before color correction, the performance section with the band had a very warm look to it thanks to the 1/2 CTO I used on most of the lights, which imitated the look of oil lamps which were spread around the set. The band preferred having most of the color sucked out, however.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 10:44 PM   #8
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Re: Need help with a shot

Charles, that video is bad ass!

Thanks for the info, I'm going to look into all this.
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Old January 6th, 2012, 09:18 AM   #9
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Re: Need help with a shot

As you want the background (the outside part that is over-exposed in the image) to be exposed correctly and balanced & you are using a T2i you may want to take a look at the latest version of Magic Lantern that implements a neat HDR function. Not quite RED-style HDRx but pretty amazing for a camera that costs less than $600. Magic Lantern releases new HDR Firmware for Canon T2i/550D/60D etc | Philip Bloom
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