Question about full frame
 

I understand the basic difference in sensor size 7D verses 5D MIII, but I still have a question.

Say I take test photos with a 7D and 5D Mark III with the same lens, of the same object, at the same distance with the same lens and zoom level. If I zoom in 100% on the picture I take, will the Mark III image still be smaller or will it's 22 meg processor make up for the cropped sensor in the 7D with it's 18 meg processor?

Does this question make sense?

I know I cannot zoom in as close with the full frame camera but what will the final crop options be when viewing at 100%. How do the camera's compare?

Re: Question about full frame
 

The image taken by the APS-C camera will be a cropped version of the image taken by the FF camera. For example, if you used a 50mm lens on both cameras, the FF image would have a 'normal' angle of view, but the same shot with the same lens on the APS-C camera would look like it was taken by an 85mm lens on the FF ... or you could crop the FF image to be exactly the same as the one taken by the APS-C camera. In both cases the image would be taken using a 50mm lens.

Clear as mud?

Not sure where 'zooming at 100%' would come into play, but if you are attempting to pixel peep then you can do the math and see whether an APS-C sized crop of a FF sensor came to the same thing ... all else being equal. That is to say there is processing going on, and pixel size et cetera that will have an effect on final image look too ...

Cheers,
GB

Re: Question about full frame
 

The pixels on the 5d miii are larger than ones the 7d so a 100% zoom on the 7d will appear to be a tighter shot than a 100% zoom on the 5d.

Re: Question about full frame
 

If when you say "zooming to 100%" you mean zooming to the pixel level in photos, the additional pixels in the 5D3 still won't overcome the 1.6x crop factor of the 7D. The pixel on the 5D3 will show less of the image than the 7D, when shot with the same lens from the same location.

Naturally, when shooting video, the APS-C sensor is a full 1.6x crop of a FF one, since most of each sensor's pixels are thrown away to arrive at exactly 1920x1080 pixels from either sensor.

Re: Question about full frame
 

So, if my desire is to get the closest highest resolution shot of say, a bird, from my 70-300mm zoom lens, my 7D would have an edge over the 5D MIII ?

I understand that the 5DmIII has a huge advantage with wide angle shots.

Re: Question about full frame
 

That is correct. The smaller pixels of the 7d will give the impression of a longer lens in comparison to the 5d miii.

Re: Question about full frame
 

Chris,

When shooting video on your 7D what custom settings do you use.
Do you have your custom settings like this guy shows?
I understand that I need to make sure my camera cannot change WB, ISO when recording.

Re: Question about full frame
 

Yes, the crop sensor cams have a big advantage on the telephoto end. Your same lens would have to be a 112mm-480mm on a FF, and long, fast glass gets a LOT more spendy.

You're correct about wider lenses getting the converse advantage on a FF body. BUT, both Canon and Nikon make lenses at the wide end specifically for crop bodies. Because crop bodies require a much-smaller image circle, these can be made cheaper than the corresponding wide glass for a FF body. Not to mention, easier to get good sharpness and less vignetting in the corners. Trade offs...

FWIW, FF bodies can use cheaper, poorer-quality glass than crop bodies, because of that massive sensor. Ken Rockwell explains it all better than I ever could... The Full-Frame Advantage

Re: Question about full frame
 

Brian,

Thanks for that input. I suspect that I will someday move to a FF Canon once they come out with something that has AF options while shooting video.

In the meantime, I'm trying to collect some lenses that will work for both. I currently have the 17-55 which seems like a great walk around lense and a 70-300 L zoom lens.

My wish list includes a 50mm 1.2L lense and a wide angle like the 16-35 f/2.8L II USM (I don't want a fish eye).

Will that 16-35 work well on my 7D? You mention special lenses for wide on the 7D. While I would like to stay with lenses that will work well on a FF, I am open to suggestions.

Thanks, Stuart

Re: Question about full frame
 

Sure, Stuart, happy to help. Your 17-55 is a fantastic lens on the crop sensor bodies, but is an EF-S lens and won't work (AFAIK) on a FF. Purchasing lenses to work with both a crop sensor cam (for now) and a FF cam (for later) might be an expensive proposition. Especially if you never move up to a FF Canon body. In the future, you might find a Nikon or even a Sony FF body has more features and/or more "bang for your buck" that you desire. Lenses that cover the FF, especially on the wide end, just cost more.

Lenses hold their value extremely well, especially the Canon and Nikon ones, and you'll be able to sell what you want, when you want, and get back about 90% of the original purchase price, if you take good care of them.

A great choice for an ultrawide is the Tokina 11-16/2.8. This is intended as an EF-S lens, but will indeed work on a FF Canon around the 15mm setting. And it's less than half the price of the much less-wide (on a crop body) 16-35 that you're considering. And 11mm on the crop body is as wide as it gets, short of a fisheye. The thing is built like a tank, and I love mine. My new 5D3 shows up tomorrow, and I'll know for certain how it fares on a FF camera. Even buying a super-wide 15mm prime costs more than the Tokina, too.

Re: Question about full frame
 

Yes, please keep us updated on how your Tokina 11-16/2.8 shoot on my MKIII.

I'm sure I'll move to FF sometime. That said, I can always sell the wide angle lens with my 7D when the time comes.

I'm also looking forward to your other impressions on that camera.

Re: Question about full frame
 

Hey, how about the Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM SLR for full frame instead of the Tokina 11-16/2.8?

I hear good things about both and like the fact that the Tokina is faster and cheaper.

Opinions?

Re: Question about full frame
 

Stuart -- please be aware that EF-S lenses are *not* physically compatible with Full Frame bodies.

They will mount only on APS-C crop-sensor cameras like the 7D, 60D and rebel series.

Re: Question about full frame
 

Yes I know, I currently have a 7D.

I understand there is really not a great wide angle that will play nice with both FF and my cropped sensor.

Tokina or Canon wide angle. Which is the best option for me and my 7D?

Re: Question about full frame
 

Hi Stuart. I posted a couple of pics of the Tokina 11-16mm/2.8 on both my 7D AND my 5D3 and made a post about it.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...-8-my-5d3.html

I don't own the Canon 10-22mm EF-S to see how bad it vignettes. Maybe the guys at the local(ish) camera store will let me put it on my 5D3 and try it out.

Re: Question about full frame
 

Thanks for posting the photos. Is this your fist FF?

I'd love to know if there is any noticeable difference (if any) when shooting video.

Can you pan faster, reduced stutter?

A night shot comparison at high ISO would be swell! ;-)

Re: Question about full frame
 

Yes, my first FF, and I've only shot DSLR with my 7D until last week. I plan to do more A-B tests with the 7D and 5D3. The most noticeable improvement is in moire' reduction, which Canon obviously worked very hard to quell in this new camera and will make a drastic improvement on my interviews (clothing and hair) and b-roll of any buildings I shoot (bricks, wires, etc). All the ballyhoo about 5D3 softness... I'll just sharpen in post to suit.

Stutter has never been a problem for me with the 7D, assuming I shoot at 1/50 (180 degree shutter), which is 99.9% of the time. Judder is more of a film/framerate issue with faster pans than the 24p allows. Rolling shutter is likely an issue with both cameras, but is seldom a problem for me and what/how I film things.

ISO comparisons between the two is substantial, as well. Noise becomes a factor past ISO800 on the 7D, and looks to me like ISO6400 is entirely usable on the 5D3. I'll see if I can find some time to film the two bodies at night in the next few days.

Other than the obvious crop FOV/DOF differences, the FF just seems to give me more pleasing skin tones and (yes, this term is overused) filmic image. I want to do some ECUs of a face to A-B the two cams, and see if it's not just my expectations showing.