EOS M thread

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Alex Anderson

mostly the inability to monitor the auido before or after without having to buy more equipment to lug around or be near a computer or TV. I bought the camera for it's large sensor, able to attach good glass like a 50mm f.12 and its very small size that makes me look like justt another tourist anywhere in the world. I do not want to draw attention to me when I shoot somewhere. I need to get interviews quickly and get out sometimes. I mostly work on my doc projects lately. I do not usually have time for any elaborate setups. Usually a one man band. I need fast lenses to shoot in very low light. I know I need a 5DM3, but can't afford it now. So I chose to get this camera and buy good glass when I can afford it.

But the audio. Very risky to find out in post the battery in lav died and I never knew it and I cannot go back to get that interview or b roll again. I do not want to carry around a second sound system, more batteries and more chargers, etc. Less is best. Just wish I could monitor the audio before, during and right after just like I do withe the video clips. One stinking little 3.5 mm jack with three wires or direct on the PCB. Come on Canon. Geez

I am not alone. Many people hate that we don't have a headphone jack. Please tell me how the usb out to a computer works. Is there some special app needed? I plugged the usb cable that came with the M into my home computer that is Windows 7 and I cannot get it to do anything. How do you do it?

Alex

Connecting the usb cable from the EOS-M to the computer provides two features: 1. It should enable you to see the video files on the sd card, just like a card reader. You can then play them, copy them, erase them. 2. You can use the EOS Utility with the camera connected by usb to change settings in the camera, including uploading custom or commercial or Canon Picture Styles to the camera, and to synch the camera clock with the computer clock.

[Alex Anderson]

Mark,

I do see the camera folder with the files when I plug in the USB cable, but, I tried a few different times to do something with it and it just goes into this Copying files routine that goes on forever and nothing ever happens for a long time as if it was hanging. I eventually have to use Task Mgr to close it and start over. So, I can't play files or copy them over. This is with a typical, working, USB 2.0 port on Windows 7. I have used EOS Utility and I have put a profile on my camera that way, but that does not help with me with the problem of never hearing any audio until I pull th card out and transfer files manually over USB 3.0 in a reader. I can easily play back clips on the camera for verification and hear a real tinny low level audio coming out of the camera speaker. Hah, speaker? It's a little whole on the case. Remember, buying more gear (ext HDMI DC monitor with a headphone jack or a laptop), then lugging more gear around as a one man band is not the workaround for me.

Maybe I should drill a hole, mount a 3.5mm jack and solder three wires into a circuit board. :-) Or, Intercept the audio signal before it goes out the HDMI port. Maybe someone can make an HDMI to headphone jack on a short cable and I could then hear the audio. But then the HDMI plug will automatically mute the camera LCD and audio. Maybe ML will be able to some magic.for us? :-)

Thanx for the reply. I would like to find out why I am not getting these USB results you mention.

Best regards,
Alex

[Al Bergstein]

Alex. I think the best you might want to go for is this.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/966010-REG/shure_vp83f_condenser_shotgun_mic.html
This solves a lot of your problems. And it records separately. None of these little attach mics are great but this one looks really interesting. And you can monitor off the mic/recorder.Set your levels prior to the recording, as usual, then monitor and record a separate channell. If I had to do what you are wanting to do, without buying a camera like the 5Dmkiii or the C100, then this is a good option.

Originally Posted by Alex Anderson

mostly the inability to monitor the auido before or after without having to buy more equipment to lug around or be near a computer or TV. I bought the camera for it's large sensor, able to attach good glass like a 50mm f.12 and its very small size that makes me look like justt another tourist anywhere in the world. I do not want to draw attention to me when I shoot somewhere. I need to get interviews quickly and get out sometimes. I mostly work on my doc projects lately. I do not usually have time for any elaborate setups. Usually a one man band. I need fast lenses to shoot in very low light. I know I need a 5DM3, but can't afford it now. So I chose to get this camera and buy good glass when I can afford it.

But the audio. Very risky to find out in post the battery in lav died and I never knew it and I cannot go back to get that interview or b roll again. I do not want to carry around a second sound system, more batteries and more chargers, etc. Less is best. Just wish I could monitor the audio before, during and right after just like I do withe the video clips. One stinking little 3.5 mm jack with three wires or direct on the PCB. Come on Canon. Geez

I am not alone. Many people hate that we don't have a headphone jack. Please tell me how the usb out to a computer works. Is there some special app needed? I plugged the usb cable that came with the M into my home computer that is Windows 7 and I cannot get it to do anything. How do you do it?

Alex

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Kit 18-55mm zoom:

Canon EOS-M Video: Palm Beach, Off-Season on Vimeo

Edited without re-compression, and downloadable. Used 'Standard' picture style, with contrast -1.

[Chad Whelan]

I will answer my own question regarding IS earlier. It is really really bad hand held. I have the 22mm and I do of course realize that there is no IS in the lens, but I am a pretty steady person and it is much worse than I thought it would be. On a bright sunny day or a well lit room on a tripod this cam produces ok results, but push it beyond that and quality degrades quickly. I was really looking forward to this cam for a 3rd angle as well as a small personal travel camera that shot stills and video but after 2 weeks of playing around I am returning it.

[Alex Anderson]

Originally Posted by Al Bergstein

Alex. I think the best you might want to go for is this.

Shure VP83F LensHopper Shotgun Microphone with Integrated VP83F

This solves a lot of your problems. And it records separately. None of these little attach mics are great but this one looks really interesting. And you can monitor off the mic/recorder.Set your levels prior to the recording, as usual, then monitor and record a separate channell. If I had to do what you are wanting to do, without buying a camera like the 5Dmkiii or the C100, then this is a good option.

Al,
this little Shure looks good. My first concern is dual AA batteries for only 10 hours. Rechargeable will help there.Thanks for the suggestion and a good one.
Alex

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Chad Whelan

I will answer my own question regarding IS earlier. It is really really bad hand held. I have the 22mm and I do of course realize that there is no IS in the lens, but I am a pretty steady person and it is much worse than I thought it would be. On a bright sunny day or a well lit room on a tripod this cam produces ok results, but push it beyond that and quality degrades quickly. I was really looking forward to this cam for a 3rd angle as well as a small personal travel camera that shot stills and video but after 2 weeks of playing around I am returning it.

I don't get it - you blame the camera for your inability to hold steady a very sharp, non-IS lens? So get an IS lens.

I also have trouble holding the 22mm+M steady, but then I would have that trouble (and do) with any video camera with out stabilization for handheld video.

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Alex Anderson

Al,
this little Shure looks good. My first concern is dual AA batteries for only 10 hours. Rechargeable will help there.Thanks for the suggestion and a good one.
Alex

Forget this kludge - use the best microphone for the job. You can very soon (even now) do exactly what you want with the EOS-M:

Magic Lantern is working right now on the EOS-M (but not quite ready with a simple install) and provides 1. audio monitoring through the digital port and 2. HDMI out viewing on an external monitor both *while shooting* video.

This is besides focus peaking, live histogram, audio meters visible while shooting, and the ability to increase the bitrate. There is even RAW video, and lots of other additions.

[Chad Whelan]

Mark - First of all I don't think the 22 is "very" sharp, or maybe it is the camera, or maybe it is the specific one I bought, who knows, but that is just part of the equation on why I am returning it. I did not buy the camera to add a bigger bulkier lens to it, I have my FS100 for that. For a 3rd camera angle for work it would not be hand held, but the other 1/2 of my intent was for personal, fun, travel, etc. where I would be shooting some kind of hand held video. I did not expect it to be perfect, knowing there was no IS in the camera or lens but man it is horrible! Reminds me of my early day flip cam.

[Al Bergstein]

Well Chad, for $300, I suppose you can expect the moon, but as mentioned by others, the IS is about the lens these days, and not usually about the camera. Certainly some cameras do have IS but usually more expensive models.(if you are talking about the feature set in this camera). When I hook up my IS based lenses, it works just fine. If you expect a non IS lens to help the camera get IS, that's not Canon's thing. They have been moving the IS into the lenses for some time now.

I don't agree that "pushing it beyond a bright sunlight day or a tripod" that the quality deteriorates quickly. Not sure what you are comparing it to. No worse than my 7D, which it is based upon.

Anyway, I only post this because someone down the road might read this and think we all are high on Canon box fumes. Chad, it would be great to have you post some videos to show us what you are actually seeing. I have no idea if you are experienced with hand holding video, I can only assume you are, and you know what they say about assumptions. . I for one try to avoid handholding video with all but wide angle lenses. But take a look at Mark's video, which has a lot of hand held shots in it. They are about what I would expect from someone who has done a lot of handheld work.

If in the mood, do some comparisons with whatever you replace it with, or are thinking of replacing it with. Maybe the grass *is* greener. Beyond that, best of luck on other $300 cameras you might want to use. I mean that sincerely. No slam intended.

Originally Posted by Chad Whelan

I will answer my own question regarding IS earlier. It is really really bad hand held. I have the 22mm and I do of course realize that there is no IS in the lens, but I am a pretty steady person and it is much worse than I thought it would be. On a bright sunny day or a well lit room on a tripod this cam produces ok results, but push it beyond that and quality degrades quickly. I was really looking forward to this cam for a 3rd angle as well as a small personal travel camera that shot stills and video but after 2 weeks of playing around I am returning it.

[Al Bergstein]

Nice job Mark. It's as good as I'd expect it to be without some post work. Handheld was as steady as you likely will get. (opening shot I'm thinking of). Exposure was very good, looking at it in HD full 24" screen on Vimeo. The odd thing is, that Palm Beach is having as good of weather as Seattle! And those lawn geese have pretty long beaks. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to post.

Great to hear about ML, it will be a killer add on to this cheap camera. Puts some great functionality in the hands of folks without a lot of dough.

I don't think the Shure is a klug. It seems like it fits a specific niche quite nicely. Did I misread your post?

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

Kit 18-55mm zoom:

Canon EOS-M Video: Palm Beach, Off-Season on Vimeo

Edited without re-compression, and downloadable. Used 'Standard' picture style, with contrast -1.

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Chad Whelan

Mark - First of all I don't think the 22 is "very" sharp, or maybe it is the camera, or maybe it is the specific one I bought, who knows, but that is just part of the equation on why I am returning it. I did not buy the camera to add a bigger bulkier lens to it, I have my FS100 for that. For a 3rd camera angle for work it would not be hand held, but the other 1/2 of my intent was for personal, fun, travel, etc. where I would be shooting some kind of hand held video. I did not expect it to be perfect, knowing there was no IS in the camera or lens but man it is horrible! Reminds me of my early day flip cam.

The "horrible" refers to *your* ability to hold the camera still? Right? Or what? There is no dispute among any professional viewers that the EOS-M's ability to shoot stills or video is any worse than any of the APS-C Canon cameras (quality of video, stills). It has the same sensor and focusing mechanism and processor (the latest). Comparing it a Flip is ridiculous, unless you mean only steadiness (which might be true for you, and me).

Whether you think a lens is sharp, given your limited use, is not good evidence. The professional reviewers show the lens rivals Canon's best. I am sorry you were disappointed, but that does not entitle you to make broad uninformed statements (or at least imprecise ones) without some blowback from informed users (at least informed about the camera). Should we quote you as thinking the EOS-M and all Canon APS-C cameras are no better for video than a Flip Cam? Surely you do not mean that? Or that you "think"' the 22mm is not sharp?

Again, I agree completely with you that it is nigh impossible to hold a very small camera with a tiny lens still enough handheld for good video *without IS*. And the EOS-M with the 22mm lens cannot be used effectively for that purpose (I had exactly the same reaction as you, disappointment). But that's it - with an IS lens (the small M zoom), which also gets great reviews for sharpness relative to any other kit lens, problem solved. If that is not small enough for you, fine, move on, but again to imply the FS100 with ANY lens is in the same size class as the EOS-M with its kit zoom is ridiculous. The 18-200mm e-mount lens alone for the FS100 (which I own (the lens)) is almost bigger than the EOS-M with IS kit zoom.

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Al Bergstein

Nice job Mark. It's as good as I'd expect it to be without some post work. Handheld was as steady as you likely will get. (opening shot I'm thinking of). Exposure was very good, looking at it in HD full 24" screen on Vimeo. The odd thing is, that Palm Beach is having as good of weather as Seattle! And those lawn geese have pretty long beaks. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to post.

Great to hear about ML, it will be a killer add on to this cheap camera. Puts some great functionality in the hands of folks without a lot of dough.

I don't think the Shure is a klug. It seems like it fits a specific niche quite nicely. Did I misread your post?

Thanks, Al. On kludge: it was an absolutely brilliant suggestion you made given the OP's need; I was just saying that with the ML installed, it is not needed and one can use any mic. Using ML (there is no downside) seems to give the OP exactly what he wants without any compromising on mic quality or size or battery life.
And right, the opening shot is just trying to hold the camera still for ten seconds. I am working on other "kludges" to enable even more steadiness - the camera is too light!

[Jon Fairhurst]

Regarding the EF-M 22/2, it's quite sharp. I compared it to the 16-35/2.8L II with both lenses at f/2.8, indoors at ISO 400 and I could not tell the differences between the lenses. It's pretty amazing, given that the front element on the L is nearly the size of a tennis ball while the pancake lens glass is smaller than a dime. It's possible that I'd see a bigger difference at ISO 100, where the noise won't hide the last pixel of sharpness, but I'm not sure.

Whatever. Lens sharpness is a bit of a red herring. If the issue is stabilization, the camera, handheld, without an IS lens only gets so much blame. Yes, it has rolling shutter, so it has some jello. But if you're expecting a tripod look handheld, that won't happen. Even with a 5D2 on a monopod, I can't help but shake a bit.

The best solution when traveling light is to bring a bean bag or similar and to set the camera down. Want a moving shot? Try laying down some wax paper on a table. Put a towel down next and set the camera on it. Pull the towel for a poor-man's slider move. :)

That said, if it's not the right camera for your application, then it's not the right camera for your application. However, it doesn't seem the camera is doing anything poorly. You simply have a camera without an IS lens. It records the motion that is presented to it.

[Mark Rosenzweig]

It's clear the EOS-M is well liked in WA!

I also like the suggestions (kludges) about dealing with non-IS (and IS) steadiness.