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All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


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Old November 12th, 2008, 04:48 PM   #16
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So it's

- ND filters
- set and tape EF lens
- alt lens with aperture control
- some trick

I hope the camera allows video with non EF lenses. I could see the firmware generating an error with a non-EF lens rather than adjust ISO and shutter speed. I'm sure the video capability of the camera is intentionally crippled. I just hope they haven't taken the downgrades too far.
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Old November 12th, 2008, 07:42 PM   #17
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Don,

Forgot to mention my Canon contact also said he thought that manual lenses should work in the way I anticipated. The camera still automatically alters the ISO and shutter speed with a non EF lens and you can still lock the exposure.

Dan
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Old November 12th, 2008, 11:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Miller View Post
tape EF lens
I think most people will simply press the Exposure Lock button instead.
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Old November 12th, 2008, 11:52 PM   #19
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Chris,

I don't think you are fully understanding this. You CANNOT force the camera to use a SPECIFIC aperture using the exposure lock button. This has been confirmed by various sources. When you engage video mode the 5dmkII disregards its previous aperture setting from the stills mode, basically AV does not work in video with and EF lens. I know this is contrary to what seems logical and what many people think the camera does, but it is what Canon are saying to me at least.

What happens is this, when you lock the exposure in video mode it stays where the camera has determined it to be correct, which in bright light will be result in the aperture closing down because the shutter speed can no longer be increased from 1/125th and the ISO cannot be decreased beyond 100asa. You can unlock and re-lock the exposure as much as you want but you can't guarantee to be using the aperture as you want. You should be able to get away with tricking the camera using ND filters and pointing it at different intensity lights.

Tricking the camera into using maximum aperture should not be too hard, however if you wanted to use the lovely 35 f1.4L at say f2.8 it is going to be hard. Trust me focussing an 35mm f1.4 lens on a slightly moving subject on a full frame 35mm sensor is far harder than you might think, there is so much less depth of field than with the same angle of view and aperture on a 1/3 of 2/3rd inch CCD. For that reason I regularly close down ultra fast lenses a little while still aiming to keep a nicely defocussed background.

With a manual lens you should at least get to shoot at your chosen aperture at base sensitivity (100asa) and when the image whites out from overexposure you can then add in ND, much as on a pro video camera. This is exactly the same technique that you can apply to the Nikon D90 with manual or contact taped lenses.

Dan
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Old November 13th, 2008, 12:14 AM   #20
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Ray,

Back to your original point, I complied a list of my own lenses that I hope will give great quality with the 5DmkII. I have used most of the extensively and I can testify they are all top class.

The EF ones are:
24mm f1.4L
35mm f1.4L
50mm f1.2L
135mm f2L
24-70 f2.8L

The Nikon ones are:
AF 14-24 f2.8 with 16-9.net adapter
AF 16mm f2.8
AF 17-35 f2.8
AF 24-70 f2.8 with 16-9.net adapter
AF 28mm f1.4
AF 80-200 f2.8
AF 85mm f1.4
85mm f2.8 shift lens
AF 300mm f4
AFS-II 400mm f2.8
AFS-II 500mm f4
MF 55mm f2.8 micro Nikkor
MF 85mm f2
MF 180mm f2.8

The Leica ones are:
50mm f2 R lens
35mm f2.8 R lens

Others are the Sigma 8mm f3.5, Zeiss/Contax 85mm f1.4 and Voigtlander 58mm f1.4

Dan
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Old November 13th, 2008, 12:14 AM   #21
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I may be on crack but I'm pretty sure I read that Zeiss was making a couple of prime EF lenses that would have external iris control, this seems like it would be an ideal lens for this camera.
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I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...
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Old November 13th, 2008, 12:18 AM   #22
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Nick,

The new ZE lenses from Zeiss do not have aperture rings.

Dan
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Old November 13th, 2008, 04:39 AM   #23
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See, thats why you should say no to crack...

This seems like the camera might be really good for film students who want to make sure they know how to use a light meter correctly, expose for the meter and then see if the camera mimics your results.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 08:06 AM   #24
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I don't think you are fully understanding this. You CANNOT force the camera to use a SPECIFIC aperture using the exposure lock button.
But that's not what I'm saying. You CAN indeed force the camera to use a SPECIFIC aperture, via other workarounds (which won't involve taping over the contacts on a lens). The procedure will be very similar to what the Canon HV series camcorder folks have been doing for quite some time; they've been using cel phones, light-up lens caps, bounce cards and other means to force the camera into a specific desired aperture value. Then you make the camera keep that setting so that it won't be changing through AE by simply pressing the exposure lock button.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 10:47 AM   #25
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Chris,

I know exactly what you mean as I own both a HV20 and 30. However unlike the HV20 a light cap of the type users have designed for the HV is pretty impractical if you have a large number of lenses with different filter sizes, especially the super telephotos. A bounce card might work if you could properly callibrate it for a given light source, but again it isn't going to be a quick way of working especially with the variety of lenses again. At the very least you are going to need ND's to use super fast lenses. I am confident you CAN get very CLOSE to the aperture and look you want from a 5DmkII in a controlled lighting environment, but that is not my primary concern, I NEED run and gun in changing light. I want to know that I can set f1.4 or f2.8 and then move around quickly between different scenes using the ae lock to adjust ISO and shutter speed.

Also, I might be wrong on this one, but I was told previously that in video mode the camera doesn't even tell you what aperture you are shooting (unlike the HV20 with a SD card and the photo button technique) so you really can't set a SPECIFIC aperture very easily, if at all. Max aperture should be easy enough to achieve, but I'm more worries about setting say f2.8 on a f1.4 lens.

If you could explain the technique you would use to set an aperture of say f5.6 on a normal sunny day it would be really, really helpful. I would love to use my Canon lenses on the 5DmkII but after speaking to Canon people at length (hours) I'm convinced it is not going to be possible to do what you suggest in a run and gun scenario, especially with changing lighting conditions. Manual lenses will simply be easier to handle.

Hope I'm wrong.

Dan

(If you want to contact me by email I can give you some details of Canon Inc people who really know this stuff, you may be more convinced after mailing them)
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Old November 13th, 2008, 06:21 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
I think most people will simply press the Exposure Lock button instead.
Won't work in most cases as there's +- 2 EV adjustment after lock.

I do own a HV20, so I do get how it can work on canon single cmos vcams.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 06:26 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Dan Chung View Post
AF 14-24 f2.8 with 16-9.net adapter
A note on the 16-9 adapter. The site says 35 days to delivery. I ordered one August 1 and have not received it. The longest people have waited is 9-10 months. Just a warning.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 06:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Dan Chung View Post
If you could explain the technique you would use to set an aperture of say f5.6 on a normal sunny day it would be really, really helpful.
As of this date, I've been hands-on with the 5D Mk. II for all of about ten minutes or so. Obviously I don't have a technique. But -- considering what I've seen other people do to manually control cameras that have no manual control, I'm convinced that someone smarter and more experienced than me will develop such a technique. There's usually a way to work around full auto. I certainly don't have the specific procedure for the 5D Mk. II, but I'm confident that somebody somewhere will be able to suss it out and post the technique.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 09:03 PM   #29
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One user said shooting a still in video mode will make the camera stay in the (user controllable) still setting. So I do hope there is some quirky way to use EF lens and choose the aperture. We'll see. Canon is pretty bizarre sometimes.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 09:16 PM   #30
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OK Chris, lets hope.

I think the difficulty to overcome is that the 5DmkII varies not just aperture and ISO but also shutter speed, unlike the HV and other auto video cams where you can lock down the shutter speed. Figuring out how the camera alters the 3 variables in different light scenarios is the challenge. Canon's exposure algorithm may also change depending on which lens you attach and its maximum aperture so you may need to have a slightly different technique for each differing lens.

All that taping the contacts of an EF lens or using manual aperture lenses does is restrict the number of variables back down to 2, hence making it easier to trick the camera into giving you the values you want.

Dan
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