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Old November 13th, 2008, 09:24 PM   #31
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I think it will completely switch how we work. Usually we want to get as much light on the subject as possible. With the 5D MII we'll be trying to get "just enough" light. That should keep the shutter speed down. I'm guessing that the camera will automatically TRY to stay at 1/30th if it can and only go above that in very bright situations. Have those ND filters ready!
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Old November 14th, 2008, 02:17 AM   #32
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Tyler,

That's EXACTLY along the lines I was thinking, and why I am more pessimistic than Chris about how easy tricking the auto will be. The question is in what order the 5dmkII will try and and compensate for exposure in. If it always goes aperture, shutter speed then ISO then we may be in luck with EF lenses, but I think it will tempted to alter shutter speed instead after it gets hits some point in the middle of the aperture range like f5.6 or f8. This is generally how program or green square modes work on an SLR.

With a manual lens you could find a exposure surface that you know should give you 1/30th at low ISO with the lens stopped down to the middle of its range, then lock it. After that just recompose , open up the aperture and then use ND to get you back to the right exposure.

Does that make sense?

Dan
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Old November 14th, 2008, 02:33 AM   #33
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Thinking some more. The other main scenario where there could be problems getting your chosen aperture are when it is dark. Say the exposure was 1/30th at f1.4 and 800ASA, but you wanted a little more depth of field to allow for subject movement during a take and wanted to shoot at 1/30th at f2.8 and 3200ASA, without manual aperture control how could us persuade the camera to let you do it?

Dan
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Old November 14th, 2008, 04:02 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Chung View Post
Thinking some more. The other main scenario where there could be problems getting your chosen aperture are when it is dark. Say the exposure was 1/30th at f1.4 and 800ASA, but you wanted a little more depth of field to allow for subject movement during a take and wanted to shoot at 1/30th at f2.8 and 3200ASA, without manual aperture control how could us persuade the camera to let you do it?

Dan
One solution here is use a slower lens. This is why I plan on not only having the 50mm f/1.4 in my bag, but also the 24-70mm f/2.8 L series. Everyone always wants faster lenses, but again, here you actually may want a slower one. In fact, the kit lens that only goes to f/4 may become rather useful.
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Old November 14th, 2008, 04:46 AM   #35
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If you are considering a zoom lens it should be parfocal. Parfocal means that it will retain its focus throughout the zoom range, this is not a problem with stills photographers as they are not zooming while taking a picture but for video it is critical

Current & Discontinued models are

EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM
EF 17-40mm f/4L USM
EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM
EF 70-200mm f/4L USM
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III USM
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III
EF 90-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
EF 90-300mm f/4.5-5.6
EF 17-35mm f/2.8L USM
EF 20-35mm f/2.8L
EF 28-70mm f/2.8L USM
EF 28-80mm f/2.8-4L USM
EF 50-200mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
EF 50-200mm f/3.5-4.5
EF 70-210mm f/4
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 II USM
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 II
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 USM
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6
EF 80-200mm f/2.8L
EF 100-300mm f/5.6L
EF 100-300mm f/5.6
EF zoom lenses with Super Inner Cam focusing, which include most of the non-L zooms introduced from 1990 onwards as well as the EF 35-350mm f/3.5-5.6L USM and the EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM, are not parfocal.
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Old November 14th, 2008, 05:51 AM   #36
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For reference going forward if you need information about specific lenses from Canon....

Canon Camera Museum | Camera Hall - Film Cameras

and if you want real user feedback about still camera lenses this site has them all...

FM Reviews - Main Index
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Old November 14th, 2008, 09:37 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Thompson View Post
If you are considering a zoom lens it should be parfocal. Parfocal means that it will retain its focus throughout the zoom range, this is not a problem with stills photographers as they are not zooming while taking a picture but for video it is critical

Current & Discontinued models are


EF zoom lenses with Super Inner Cam focusing, which include most of the non-L zooms introduced from 1990 onwards as well as the EF 35-350mm f/3.5-5.6L USM and the EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM, are not parfocal.
Thank You Very Useful
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Old November 14th, 2008, 03:25 PM   #38
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Dan Chung, if I recall your recent posts on this correctly, you shoot a lot of run-&-gun stuff? So your logic is bent mainly on anticipating how to use auto-aperture lenses on the 5D2?

I ask 'cause I shoot only dramatic (fiction) content, where we have time to set exposures manually—& prefer to. Your thinking is useful, but if I understand the current speculation about the 5D2 (I've looked at the manual online), using a manual-aperture-only lens on the body will remove one of three variables (the other two being ISO & shutter speed).

Does that sound right?
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Old November 15th, 2008, 04:38 AM   #39
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John,

That sounds about right to me. I think once you can control the aperture by using a manual lens it will be much easier to force the camera to lock the ISO and shutter speed at a value at or close to what you want. Then if you want a specific aperture after you have AE locked you would simply add enough ND and open up the lens aperture.

Dan
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Old November 15th, 2008, 07:58 AM   #40
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The documentation varies on shutter speed. Is there 1/30th? That's pretty good with the camera doing 30fps. It means that the sensor can cycle very quickly, including the on chip noise calculation.
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Old November 15th, 2008, 08:04 AM   #41
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Yes, I was told 1/30th to 1/125th

Dan
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Old November 18th, 2008, 11:34 PM   #42
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What do you think of these good combinations...

$2800 for 24mm to 200mm, and not too slow:

EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM for $1400
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM for $1400

----------------------------------------------

All the way to 300mm with just one lens:

EF 28-300 f/3.5-5.6L IS USM for $2600 (but somewhat slow, and variable aperture)

----------------------------------------------

This will get you out to 400mm for $2950 (but somewhat slow, and variable aperture):

EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS USM for $1250
EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM for $1700

----------------------------------------------

Here's the slow, low budget, affordable non-L path to 500mm for $1380:

EF 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6 USM for $480
Tamron 200-500mm f/5.6-6.3 for $900

----------------------------------------------

Whatever your max telephoto is, double it:

EF 2x II Converter for $340 (incompatible w/ EF 100-400 though)
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Old November 18th, 2008, 11:50 PM   #43
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Personally, I'm going to go with the 70-200 f/2.8L for a fast lens with good reach and then get the Canon 2x II Extender for about $300 when I need more reach and can sacrifice the light.
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Old November 18th, 2008, 11:58 PM   #44
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Tyler,
Are you going to shoot stills as well or just video? there are many more cost effective solutions in manual focus. Also if you want AF but don't need it quick there are Sigmas and Tamrons in the 70-200 range.

If you are staying with Canon glass do you really need the zoom? if not I can really recommend the 135mm f2L either with or without 1.4 and 2x convertors? you could add an 85mm f1.8 as well. These give you a great light/bokeh advantage over a 70-200 f2.8L which was never my favorite lens. The newer 70-200 f2.8IS is better but both are prone to problem with sharpness over time in my experience (I've had two of each and they never fully worked to my satisfaction)

Dan
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Old November 19th, 2008, 12:26 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
What do you think of these good combinations...
I didn't see anything in there for low light. I like to have a wide angle fast aperture for hand held low light work. Adding the 35mm f/2.0 is not expensive, but the 24mm f/1.4 will give the deepest DOF possible for an f/1.4 focal ratio (and I have a hunch that I will need the wiggle room).

I'm thinking about carrying just the 24mm f/1.4 and 70-200 f/4 L IS.
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