Can firmware change these?

Chris Hurd · December 17th, 2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Miller

I was speaking of cameras, not camcorders.

Even on the still photo side, they do *occasionally* respond to customers. RAW mode was gone for awhile from the PowerShot G Series, but now it's back by popular demand.

John Vincent · December 17th, 2008, 04:47 PM

You'd know waaaay better then me - what are the odds we see either manual shutter control or 24p firmware for this camera?

Given their higher end video camera division, it just seems unlikely as hell to me.... But Chris, if say it will happen, they will make it so.

You know, for Christmas!

john

Don Miller · December 17th, 2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Even on the still photo side, they do *occasionally* respond to customers. RAW mode was gone for awhile from the PowerShot G Series, but now it's back by popular demand.

O.K., I meant DSLR.
And they didn't update firmware to add raw to the G series, they put it back in the next model.

Chris Hurd · December 17th, 2008, 04:58 PM

You are of course quite right about the model updates vs. firmware updates.

My previous examples (XL2 and XH Series) were also examples of model updates.

My point about Canon's attentiveness to the market remains valid, but I will agree that firmware updates as issued by Canon are never anything more than a fix for a recognized glitch or incompatibility. Wish lists are never accommodated by Canon firmware updates, and if that was your point, then yes I agree with you. However, Canon accommodates wish lists to a degree by changes in the product rev, as has been demonstrated right here over the years.

Pete Bauer · December 17th, 2008, 05:40 PM

True, it doesn't seem to be a regular occurrence, but Canon does provide feature updates. The original XL H1 had a firmware update to allow use of the then-new 6x lens. Granted, given their decision to release the lens when they did, it was in Canon's short-term interest to do the firmware update in order to sell lenses...but they could have chosen to wait for the H1a and H1s models to release the wide lens. That would make a lot of original H1 customers unhappy, but would probably have pushed even more sales of the new cameras.

Canon folks do read the boards. They know everyone's sentiments.

Jon Fairhurst · December 17th, 2008, 07:14 PM

They read the forums? Then Canon has to know that the inability to control aperture sells Nikon lenses.

The example of a firmware fix making one new lens available is quite narrow. A firmware fix that lets us control aperture lets us buy ALL the Canon lenses.

There's no way that I will buy more Canon lenses for video as it currently stands. Give me aperture control, and there's no way that I will buy more Nikon lenses for it.

If I end up with a boat load of Nikon lenses, then I'm more likely to upgrade to a full frame, manual, 24p Nikon DVSLR in a couple of years, not a Canon.

The lack of manual control in video mode is a huge strategic blunder. If they were to make manual control work for only Canon EF lenses in a firmware upgrade, it would be a stroke of genius. :)

Don Miller · December 17th, 2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

You are of course quite right about the model updates vs. firmware updates.

I knew I could wear you down. :)

I'm confident that people like Laforet, who have the opportunity to give direct feedback, are telling Canon the same things we are. I believe he said he tried to shoot Reverie scenes at 1.6 and 1.8. We can be pretty sure know that he did that by disconnecting the lens. Not something we heard about when Canon promoted his demo.

Evan Donn · December 17th, 2008, 10:41 PM

Actually I don't think he disconnected the lens, he was just shooting in very low light so luckily the camera kept things open - he just thought it was using his settings because he didn't really know how to use the camera yet.

Paul Cascio · December 18th, 2008, 06:37 AM

Assuming Canon doesn't revise the firmware to provide the functionality we are clamoring for, has there ever been third party custom firmware produced for cameras? I realize that such firmware would void the camera's warranty, but I think many people would still be willing to take that risk.

How tough is it to create such firmware?

Chris Hurd · December 18th, 2008, 08:05 AM

Yes, there is, but not for D-SLR's... see CHDK in Brief - CHDK Wiki

Definitely *not* easy to create (and not even all that easy to use, in my opinion).

Don Miller · December 18th, 2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Donn

Actually I don't think he disconnected the lens, he was just shooting in very low light so luckily the camera kept things open - he just thought it was using his settings because he didn't really know how to use the camera yet.

From my testing 1.2 lenses go from 1.2 to f2.
The camera seems to only set four apertures: Wide open, fully closed, and two in between.

I feel the best approach is accept the cameras limitations. Or don't accept the limitations and buy something else.

I am confident that we will see firmware updates next year that improve file quality. I'm not expecting anything else.

John Stakes · December 18th, 2008, 10:45 PM

First: I am honored to post in this thread amongst the greats : )

Second:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Miller

I feel the best approach is accept the cameras limitations. Or don't accept the limitations and buy something else.

I agree. The thing is, this is a great Digital Camera. But some are forgetting there is a such thing as a Camcorder! Of course the envelope is going to keep getting pushed, but technology evolves at such a rapid pace; and I'm sure if Canon wanted too, they could theoretically "skip" their next one or two upgrades/updates/new models etc...and put out something simply amazing. But the thing is, they just put out something amazing, the 5D Mk. II! At the end of the day, it is Photographer's tool. It's ability to shoot HD video period is a ++. Can it be used as a second cam in a shoot? Sure, as long as you know the workarounds and respect the limitations.

I have been studying up on photography for the past year or so and I am now ready to take a step into the field. Needless to say this will be my first DSLR camera, AND my second cam at shoots.

So, for the books:
audio monitoring, and a few manual settings to keep us video guys happy : )

JS

Paul Cascio · December 19th, 2008, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Yes, there is, but not for D-SLR's... see CHDK in Brief - CHDK Wiki

Wow Chris, that looks really promising. If there was ever a camera that would motivate such development, it's just got to be the 5DM2.

Jim Giberti · December 19th, 2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

You are of course quite right about the model updates vs. firmware updates.

My previous examples (XL2 and XH Series) were also examples of model updates.

My point about Canon's attentiveness to the market remains valid, but I will agree that firmware updates as issued by Canon are never anything more than a fix for a recognized glitch or incompatibility. Wish lists are never accommodated by Canon firmware updates, and if that was your point, then yes I agree with you. However, Canon accommodates wish lists to a degree by changes in the product rev, as has been demonstrated right here over the years.

Anyone who was around here and producing with the XL1/XL1s know's what Chris is saying. The XL2 was literally the best overall shooting tool I've worked with (given the res and cost), and it was literally like the embodiment of our wish list and discussions here over months where we dubbed it the XL2 and talked about what we all wanted to see.

They listened intently.

Jay Birch · December 19th, 2008, 05:53 PM

As has been mentioned.... the one thing that could really force their hand is people moving over to Nikon lenses.

They must know about this workaround and they should have the vision to see that many new people are about to buy DSLR's for video use who own neither Canon or Nikon lenses. The more Nikon lens these people buy, the more chance they will migrate to Nikon when they perfect their DSLR.

If Canon do not know about this issue, or are ignoring it... they are in for a BIG shock.

December 17th, 2008, 04:58 PM	#49
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	You are of course quite right about the model updates vs. firmware updates. My previous examples (XL2 and XH Series) were also examples of model updates. My point about Canon's attentiveness to the market remains valid, but I will agree that firmware updates as issued by Canon are never anything more than a fix for a recognized glitch or incompatibility. Wish lists are never accommodated by Canon firmware updates, and if that was your point, then yes I agree with you. However, Canon accommodates wish lists to a degree by changes in the product rev, as has been demonstrated right here over the years. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 17th, 2008, 05:40 PM	#50
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	True, it doesn't seem to be a regular occurrence, but Canon does provide feature updates. The original XL H1 had a firmware update to allow use of the then-new 6x lens. Granted, given their decision to release the lens when they did, it was in Canon's short-term interest to do the firmware update in order to sell lenses...but they could have chosen to wait for the H1a and H1s models to release the wide lens. That would make a lot of original H1 customers unhappy, but would probably have pushed even more sales of the new cameras. Canon folks do read the boards. They know everyone's sentiments. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

December 17th, 2008, 07:14 PM	#51
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	They read the forums? Then Canon has to know that the inability to control aperture sells Nikon lenses. The example of a firmware fix making one new lens available is quite narrow. A firmware fix that lets us control aperture lets us buy ALL the Canon lenses. There's no way that I will buy more Canon lenses for video as it currently stands. Give me aperture control, and there's no way that I will buy more Nikon lenses for it. If I end up with a boat load of Nikon lenses, then I'm more likely to upgrade to a full frame, manual, 24p Nikon DVSLR in a couple of years, not a Canon. The lack of manual control in video mode is a huge strategic blunder. If they were to make manual control work for only Canon EF lenses in a firmware upgrade, it would be a stroke of genius. :) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

December 17th, 2008, 10:41 PM	#53
Evan Donn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 795	Actually I don't think he disconnected the lens, he was just shooting in very low light so luckily the camera kept things open - he just thought it was using his settings because he didn't really know how to use the camera yet. __________________ My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"

December 18th, 2008, 06:37 AM	#54
Paul Cascio Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, CT (Home of EPSN) Posts: 1,192	Assuming Canon doesn't revise the firmware to provide the functionality we are clamoring for, has there ever been third party custom firmware produced for cameras? I realize that such firmware would void the camera's warranty, but I think many people would still be willing to take that risk. How tough is it to create such firmware? __________________ Paul Cascio www.pictureframingschool.com

December 17th, 2008, 04:47 PM	#47
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	You'd know waaaay better then me - what are the odds we see either manual shutter control or 24p firmware for this camera? Given their higher end video camera division, it just seems unlikely as hell to me.... But Chris, if say it will happen, they will make it so. You know, for Christmas! john

December 18th, 2008, 08:05 AM	#55
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Yes, there is, but not for D-SLR's... see CHDK in Brief - CHDK Wiki Definitely not easy to create (and not even all that easy to use, in my opinion). __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 19th, 2008, 05:53 PM	#60
Jay Birch Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Portimao Posts: 49	As has been mentioned.... the one thing that could really force their hand is people moving over to Nikon lenses. They must know about this workaround and they should have the vision to see that many new people are about to buy DSLR's for video use who own neither Canon or Nikon lenses. The more Nikon lens these people buy, the more chance they will migrate to Nikon when they perfect their DSLR. If Canon do not know about this issue, or are ignoring it... they are in for a BIG shock.