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Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


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Old January 22nd, 2009, 12:53 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post

1/40 isn't ideal. It's a bit slow. But it's the most flexible, due to Canon's lack of manual control. If Canon were to give us manual control, I'd choose 1/60.

If 1/60 is ideal.... then can the camera be set to 1/60 and 3200 iso? In your test i didnt notice to much light lost at 1/60.

i guess 1/60 shutter will also help with the 24p conversion look.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 01:08 PM   #17
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In our tests using a non-Canon lens, we were only able to consistently get 100 ISO at 1/60.

Maybe you can move a light and hit AE-lock at just the right time to get other values, but these are basic rules with a non-Canon lens:

* Choose 1/40 and any ISO
* Choose 100 ISO and any shutter speed
* Choose 1/30 and 3200 ISO

As you can see, the only option with 1/60 is 100 ISO.

Also note that when the camera displays 1/60, it is actually recording at about 1/80 as shown in our shutter video.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 01:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
In our tests using a non-Canon lens, we were only able to consistently get 100 ISO at 1/60.

Maybe you can move a light and hit AE-lock at just the right time to get other values, but these are basic rules with a non-Canon lens:

* Choose 1/40 and any ISO
* Choose 100 ISO and any shutter speed
* Choose 1/30 and 3200 ISO

As you can see, the only option with 1/60 is 100 ISO.

Also note that when the camera displays 1/60, it is actually recording at about 1/80 as shown in our shutter video.

Sooo going back to what i said earlier... Im hoping the LED dimmer will help give more control for this. If 1/60 is locked would i see the iso jump around depending on the light conditions? Or once you hit lock does then the iso get displayed in 1/60 shutter.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 01:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ozan Biron View Post
...Im hoping the LED dimmer will help give more control for this...
From my experience, it won't help.

The camera might pass through various interesting settings when you change the light, but it always settles on its preferred settings. For an LED light to give you these interesting settings, you would need it to do the following:

1) Emit one light level
2) Camera stabilizes
3) Change to second light level
4) Hit AE Lock at EXACTLY the right time.

The problem is that this is not easily repeatable, so it's not useful for real productions.

The idea with 1/40 and 100 ISO is that you can lock the camera NEAR the desired setting, and then use exposure compensation to hit the exact level you want.

For instance, let's say the exposure compensation is at the center, and you lock at 1/40 and 100 ISO. As you increase the exposure the ISO goes up, and the shutter stays at 1/40. As you decrease the exposure, the shutter speed increases, and the ISO stays at 100 ISO.

The bottom line is that if you want a faster shutter than 1/40, you must have enough light to shoot at 100 ISO. And that can be a lot of light!

I really hope that Canon will change their policy on manual settings. It wouldn't change the overall market dynamics, but it will let us get the settings that we want, it will keep us from fighting the camera on each and every shot, and it will help Canon sell Canon lenses, rather than Nikons.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 04:37 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post

The bottom line is that if you want a faster shutter than 1/40, you must have enough light to shoot at 100 ISO. And that can be a lot of light!

I really hope that Canon will change their policy on manual settings. It wouldn't change the overall market dynamics, but it will let us get the settings that we want, it will keep us from fighting the camera on each and every shot, and it will help Canon sell Canon lenses, rather than Nikons.
My thought on this Jon. I've never produced anything I can think of where our cameras weren't set to 0db gain - or in 5D2 terms 100 ISO. The idea has always been to have as clean an "emulsion" as possible and light to that. I've done a good deal of Doc work too and certainly don't light all the time, but my cameras are never set beyond 0db. So the ability to quickly nail 100 ISO is a good thing and if I'm right about 40-50 = 1/60 for a 180 degree shutter then all the better.

But yes, it would be really nice if Canon recognized the unnecessary and unprofessional situation they're putting countless thousands of users through by not giving us any control over basic shooting parameters.

I was ready to sell my Nikon bodies and glass and convert everything to Canon when this first came out. Now all I've done is sold my Nikon bodies and they lost thousands in new lens purchases from me alone. Multiply that by the many others in my situation and it's not hard to see how Canon missed this very obvious sales point in developing the MKII.

I have hope that from their own profit standpoint and from the concerns of their customers, that they'll address this in the near future.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 01:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
From my experience, it won't help.

The camera might pass through various interesting settings when you change the light, but it always settles on its preferred settings. For an LED light to give you these interesting settings, you would need it to do the following:

1) Emit one light level
2) Camera stabilizes
3) Change to second light level
4) Hit AE Lock at EXACTLY the right time.

The problem is that this is not easily repeatable, so it's not useful for real productions.

The idea with 1/40 and 100 ISO is that you can lock the camera NEAR the desired setting, and then use exposure compensation to hit the exact level you want.

For instance, let's say the exposure compensation is at the center, and you lock at 1/40 and 100 ISO. As you increase the exposure the ISO goes up, and the shutter stays at 1/40. As you decrease the exposure, the shutter speed increases, and the ISO stays at 100 ISO.

The bottom line is that if you want a faster shutter than 1/40, you must have enough light to shoot at 100 ISO. And that can be a lot of light!

I really hope that Canon will change their policy on manual settings. It wouldn't change the overall market dynamics, but it will let us get the settings that we want, it will keep us from fighting the camera on each and every shot, and it will help Canon sell Canon lenses, rather than Nikons.
Soo are u saying that once the shutter was locked at 1/60. And as soon as you adjusted the light... the iso wouldn't start to jump up? The camera will override the shutter lock and decrease the shutter to 1/30 and then finally the iso will automatically boost up in low light?

When u did your test... How did u hit 1/60 shutter?
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 02:59 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ozan Biron View Post
When u did your test... How did u hit 1/60 shutter?
By setting ISO to 100 and adjusting the exposure compensation.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 03:05 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
By setting ISO to 100 and adjusting the exposure compensation.
Soo wait... the only way to adjust the shutter is by locking the iso. And the iso can only be set to 100 in order to achieve 1/60 1/80, etc... ?

Or u cant go there other way and lock the iso @ 3200 then exposure compensation at 1/60.

I get a little confused when u say exposure compensation which is done internally and not done on the nikon lens.

Have u evre done any test with a manual lens?
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 11:46 AM   #24
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Ozan,

I should clarify my terms:

By "exposure compensation" I mean the in-camera adjustment from -2 to +2. It is done with the wheel on the back of the camera. It is not the same as "aperture" control, which is done with the aperture ring on a manual lens. All my work is with a manual lens (or a partially unscrewed Canon lens.)

See page 96 of the manual for a description of exposure compensation.

"AE Lock" locks all three parameters: aperture (for a Canon lens), shutter speed, and ISO. (See page 98.) After you press "AE Lock", the only adjustments are aperture (with a Nikon lens), and exposure compensation.

If you lock at 3200 ISO the shutter speed WILL be 1/30, due to Canon's algorithm. If you reduce the exposure, it will go to 3200 ISO and 1/40. After that it will reduce ISO, and the exposure will remain at 1/40.

I believe that it is impossible to get 3200 ISO and 1/60 on this camera in video mode.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 12:18 PM   #25
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Ozan,

I should clarify my terms:

By "exposure compensation" I mean the in-camera adjustment from -2 to +2. It is done with the wheel on the back of the camera. It is not the same as "aperture" control, which is done with the aperture ring on a manual lens. All my work is with a manual lens (or a partially unscrewed Canon lens.)

See page 96 of the manual for a description of exposure compensation.

"AE Lock" locks all three parameters: aperture (for a Canon lens), shutter speed, and ISO. (See page 98.) After you press "AE Lock", the only adjustments are aperture (with a Nikon lens), and exposure compensation.

If you lock at 3200 ISO the shutter speed WILL be 1/30, due to Canon's algorithm. If you reduce the exposure, it will go to 3200 ISO and 1/40. After that it will reduce ISO, and the exposure will remain at 1/40.

I believe that it is impossible to get 3200 ISO and 1/60 on this camera in video mode.
Ah ok, Ya sorry got a little confused there. Im getting this camera very very soon. Hopefully today and If not on monday. Sooo basically we are stuck with... (1/40 with any ISO) and (100 ISO with any shutter speed)... in terms of some kinda control.

Also besides from 3200 iso... what the next ISO setting below that? Is it 1600?
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 01:13 PM   #26
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Also besides from 3200 iso... what the next ISO setting below that? Is it 1600?
I think so, but I can't check it right now. My son has the camera for filming our Dirk Snowglobe pilot. (I will compose the music and do audio post.)
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 01:23 PM   #27
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Ah ok, Ya sorry got a little confused there. Im getting this camera very very soon. Hopefully today and If not on monday. Sooo basically we are stuck with... (1/40 with any ISO) and (100 ISO with any shutter speed)... in terms of some kinda control.

Also besides from 3200 iso... what the next ISO setting below that? Is it 1600?
if you're to believe the display on the LCD, it steps down the ISO thusly: 3200 -> 2500 -> 2000 -> 1600
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Old January 24th, 2009, 01:20 AM   #28
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
In our tests using a non-Canon lens, we were only able to consistently get 100 ISO at 1/60.

Maybe you can move a light and hit AE-lock at just the right time to get other values, but these are basic rules with a non-Canon lens:

* Choose 1/40 and any ISO
* Choose 100 ISO and any shutter speed
* Choose 1/30 and 3200 ISO

As you can see, the only option with 1/60 is 100 ISO.

Also note that when the camera displays 1/60, it is actually recording at about 1/80 as shown in our shutter video.
Thank you very much for your clear explanations of how it behaves. I just played with movie mode and I actually understood what it was doing based on your explanations here. Before it just seemed to do random things. I think I can really use it now.

I have a question. I had my f-stop fixed at f4 in a dimly lit room. I observed that it stayed at ISO 3200 and changed the shutter speed as I dialed the exposure. The video sequence shot at +2 EV showed a shutter speed of 1/6 second, which is really 1/30, right? Then I dialed the exposure down to +0 EV and it showed 1/30 second, which is also 1/30, right?

But my two video sequences showed two different light levels that matched the exposure bias each time, both during recording and in playback. How is this possible if both were actually f4, ISO 3200, and 1/30? How and where was it lying to me? Could it be that it actually used a higher ISO?
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Old January 24th, 2009, 01:43 AM   #29
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Press the shutter button half way occasionally, so it doesn't time out.
Best of luck!
You can go to Live View/Movie Func. Set, Metering Timeout, and change it to 30 minutes.
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Old January 24th, 2009, 02:08 AM   #30
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You can go to Live View/Movie Func. Set, Metering Timeout, and change it to 30 minutes.
Thanks Mark. I'll pass this to Nathan, who is filming as we speak (write?)

If the flashlight thing doesn't frustrate the heck out of us enough, when it times out and you have to do it all over again before you can shoot, well, it doesn't help.

The longer timeout setting is a "must do."
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