CineForm supports 5D Mk II editing

[Ryan Thom]

Originally Posted by Toenis Liivamaegi

File size goes up from 150MB to 1GB and still no real time Windows playback?

Note to all that if you're seeing sizes go up this much, check if you have Nero 7 installed. It can cause problems for some reason. My NeoScene was producing 1gb sized files out of like 250mb source, which would then crash After Effects CS4, etc.

I un-installed Nero 7 and now no problems.

[Mark Hahn]

Originally Posted by Ryan Thom

Note to all that if you're seeing sizes go up this much, check if you have Nero 7 installed. It can cause problems for some reason. My NeoScene was producing 1gb sized files out of like 250mb source, which would then crash After Effects CS4, etc.

I un-installed Nero 7 and now no problems.

4X doesn't seem out of hand. 3X is normal for me with the latest Neo Scene and it edits fast. The lowest I've ever seen was 2X. Considering that it is lossless, these are amazingly small file sizes.

Edit: I always use the high quality setting.

Edit2: I don't have Nero. Quit using it a few years ago after support refused to admit a serious problem.

[Jay Bloomfield]

Originally Posted by Mark Hahn

... Edit2: I don't have Nero. Quit using it a few years ago after support refused to admit a serious problem.

Heh, heh, Their whole bloated Nero software suite is a multimedia plague locusts, that will, in time devour your PC. What happened after those first few Nero versions? These days, Nero is unforgiving. It installs codecs and other DirectShow filters. Then it unilaterally decides that its filter merits should supersede anything that you already have installed. Nero is like a malevolent freeware codec pack that's run amok. It's now, also aptly named, as it fiddles about with the internal workings of your computer, while it also sets it on fire. Aaargh! Enough of my neo-Nero rants.

BTW Cineform isn't lossless, it's "visually lossless". Render about 4 or 5 generations on the "High" setting and you will begin to see a few compression artifacts. But how often are you going to do that?

CFHD is still the best intermediate codec out there. It's fast, the files are of a reasonable size and their tech support is great. Further, unlike most software companies these days, they are in tune with their customers (sorta the anti-Microsoft) and are constantly making improvements and adding features.

[Jay Bloomfield]

I did want to add to my previous post to Thane that the people at CoreAVC also told me that the PC setting is fixed at 709 and the TV setting is 601.

[Mark Hahn]

Originally Posted by Jay Bloomfield

Heh, heh, Their whole bloated Nero software suite is a multimedia plague locusts, that will, in time devour your PC. What happened after those first few Nero versions? These days, Nero is unforgiving. It installs codecs and other DirectShow filters. Then it unilaterally decides that its filter merits should supersede anything that you already have installed. Nero is like a malevolent freeware codec pack that's run amok. It's now, also aptly named, as it fiddles about with the internal workings of your computer, while it also sets it on fire. Aaargh! Enough of my neo-Nero rants.

BTW Cineform isn't lossless, it's "visually lossless". Render about 4 or 5 generations on the "High" setting and you will begin to see a few compression artifacts. But how often are you going to do that?

CFHD is still the best intermediate codec out there. It's fast, the files are of a reasonable size and their tech support is great. Further, unlike most software companies these days, they are in tune with their customers (sorta the anti-Microsoft) and are constantly making improvements and adding features.

Ok, I wasn't going to tell my Nero rant, but I just can't resist. It makes me feel good to share such stories (I must be evil at heart).

I was having trouble processing any output from Premiere CS3 with the Nero movie thingie. I narrowed the problem down to Nero by finding the most vanilla DV I could find, testing the DV with every player, putting it in Premiere, did no editing, and outputting vanilla DV. The premiere output played perfectly in every player of about 6 kinds. When Nero Movie was told to open the file it immediately (0.1 secs) popped up an error box saying the file was corrupt.

I emailed Nero support and they immediately gave me a standard response, that they can't support every video file because many files are non-standards-compliant. I email back and explained in detail how this couldn't be the case. I got the same form response back.

I tried one last time and asked for some higher level of support tech to read my story or I'd never use them again, but you guessed it, the same response came back.

So no more Nero.

[Chris Barcellos]

I posted over in the Cineform forum, but I am wondering if others are facing sound synch issues on long converted file. Most of my shooting has been in short 2 minute and under recordings. However, I just happended to shoot a "talking head" shot.

In the .mov file everything is synched perfectly. But in the conversion file, as you slide down toward the end of the file, it gets more and more out of synch. David Taylor suggested that I change playback configuration and I did that, but it does nothing for playing the files in Media Player or Media player classic, or on the Vegas time line. Only way I can fix it is chop up sound track in Vegas.

I am wondering if it has to do with frame rate 30 FPS v. 29.97 or some issue like that.

I know there hasn't been a lot of stuff shot of voice and talking heads, because of othersound issues with this camera, but for those that are, have you seen similar issues ?

[Jon Fairhurst]

I also noticed that Cineform-converted video claims 29.97 for the output frame rate. I haven't done anything of note with the onboard audio though.

You might need to ungroup the audio and video and then change the frame rate to 30.0.

[Jay Bloomfield]

Originally Posted by Jay Bloomfield

I did want to add to my previous post to Thane that the people at CoreAVC also told me that the PC setting is fixed at 709 and the TV setting is 601.

The new version of the CoreAVC decoder (1.95) now has an option that allows you to select the input color space

[Mark Hahn]

Originally Posted by Jay Bloomfield

The new version of the CoreAVC decoder (1.95) now has an option that allows you to select the input color space

That's great, but it is a bit odd that they let you "auto-detect" the output format. Think about that for a second.

[Julian Frost]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

You might need to ungroup the audio and video and then change the frame rate to 30.0.

On my thread about the 869 MB, 12 minute clip, there's a quote from Canon support which says the 5D mk II actually records as 29.97 fps, even though they call it "30 fps".

Julian

[Yang Wen]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

I posted over in the Cineform forum, but I am wondering if others are facing sound synch issues on long converted file. Most of my shooting has been in short 2 minute and under recordings. However, I just happended to shoot a "talking head" shot.

In the .mov file everything is synched perfectly. But in the conversion file, as you slide down toward the end of the file, it gets more and more out of synch. David Taylor suggested that I change playback configuration and I did that, but it does nothing for playing the files in Media Player or Media player classic, or on the Vegas time line. Only way I can fix it is chop up sound track in Vegas.

I am wondering if it has to do with frame rate 30 FPS v. 29.97 or some issue like that.

I know there hasn't been a lot of stuff shot of voice and talking heads, because of othersound issues with this camera, but for those that are, have you seen similar issues ?

Chris.. what if you take the transcoded video and line it up with the audio from the original MOV file, does the sync drift still exist?

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Yang Wen

Chris.. what if you take the transcoded video and line it up with the audio from the original MOV file, does the sync drift still exist?

Yang: Spot on question. And my look at it tells us a lot ! I put the two on two different time lines.

The .mov clip ends at 4:55;23. The Cineform .avi ends at 4:45;01. That tells me that the Cineform render added 8 frames. That final 8 frames has a noisy but otherwise "no sound" bit of sound track that does not match anything. I am attaching a view of the time line.

The sound tracks from the .mov file and the .avi file, except for the rogue 8 frames at the end appear to match. So at the end of the clip, the cineform video is about 4/15's of a second behind the sound track.

[Chris Barcellos]

Follow up: On the Vegas time line, I took and readjusted length of clip using the control key, and sliding the end of clip back to where it ended at the same place as the .mov clip ended. At that point, it looks like sound was synched pretty well. Of course that is a fix, but it also means a re-render of the entire time line to get it matched up. And what happens when I use the intermediate in Vegas-- am I back in the same boat ?

[Yang Wen]

Chris: This is happening with every Transcoded clip? Does it only occur with 5D2 clips or other clips as well? I'm planning using NeoScene with my new HMC as well.. this is not looking good...

[Chris Barcellos]

Yang:

First, I just started using NeoScene because of the 5D. Before, I had NeoHDV, and never had a problem. For the three week I have had the 5D, I haven't really had to look closely at synch issues. I suspect they were there. But that it is a 5D 30p problem. Cineform is always good about addressing our issues when they come up. They monitor these forum, and fly in with resolutions in short order... if there is one...