25p: what's more likely new model or firmware upgrade? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Full Frame for HD

Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 21st, 2009, 11:01 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Luanda - ANGOLA & Lisbon - PORTUGAL
Posts: 160
25p: what's more likely new model or firmware upgrade?

I'm probably not the only one who is wondering if it's safe to get a 5D Mark II now and expect a firmware upgrade with 25p soon, or if I will have to wait for a new version. Is 25p something that can actually be implemented through firmware?

I think I would accept that 5D MkIIs sold in Europe and other PAL countries only have 25p capability... like in the old days for video cameras, but that the 30p model be the only choice does little to foster brand loyalty.

I wish Canon would issue some kind of statement on the subject. As a loyal Canon user for over 30 years (AE1, A1, Rebel, 1n, 30D, 450D) with a reasonable investment in Canon EF lenses, I feel that a purchase of this nature should not be a gamble.
__________________
Kalunga Lima
PMW-350, PDW-F350, PDW-EX1, MacBookPro, MacPro 8-Core, Final Cut Studio 2, Canon 5D MkII
Kalunga Lima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2009, 12:36 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
I think Canon's two biggest motivators for a firmware update are:

1) The current auto exposure situation sells Nikon lenses, and
2) 30p-only is deeply insulting to the entire European market.

I would be surprised if manual control can't be added in firmware, but I'm not so sure about the signal processing chain.

Possibilities are:

A) We get a firmware update soon,
B) We get a firmware update after inventories start to grow, or
C) Canon brings the 5D MkIII to market.

I'm still hoping for A, if not B. And I hope that both 1 and 2 (and 24p) are solved. Path C would almost certainly drive me and my growing Nikon lens collection to a future Nikon body (or Scarlet), rather than a MkIII.
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 12:31 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalunga Lima View Post
...safe to get a 5D Mark II now and expect a firmware upgrade with 25p soon[?]
Danger Will Robinson. Definitely not safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalunga Lima View Post
Is 25p something that can actually be implemented through firmware?
I haven't read any commentary by sensor designers one way or the other; however, most guesses, including mine, is that it is possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalunga Lima View Post
25p: what's more likely new model or firmware upgrade?
A new model is far more likely IMHO.
Daniel Browning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 01:17 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Burlingame, CA USA
Posts: 285
Despite being a happy 5D Mark II owner, I sadly believe that the true realization of the camera's potential is going to come in a true video camera, not in a firmware update. It just doesn't make business sense for Canon to cannibalize their entire video product line (or at least the high end of it) with a still camera body.
__________________
me@facebook: http://facebook.com/stevemallerphotography
Steve Maller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 01:52 AM   #5
New Boot
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rome (Italy)
Posts: 20
If they wanted to put a limitation to the video of this cam because l' they have only made for the half of the market? (PAL). It does not have sense. And it does not have sense that in order to use the 5d in manual way I must buy the objectives of the competition number: nikon. This is a stupid thing! Possible that they have underrated l' use video of this reflex? And then in order to use it to 25fps I make a conversion with COLOR and comes very well. Therefore however the limitations are succeeded to exceed all that have tax. But the history of 25fps own not l' I have happens! I live in Italy and the colleagues take to me in turn because they see to me to use this reflex in order to make video, to the place of mine xlh1. then when they see the result are astonished! Excused my English. Ciao
Max Worm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 02:31 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Munich Germany
Posts: 37
I think, that the people at canon who designed the 5D MK2 belong to the photo division , not the video division.
That means first of all they watch the sales of people who bought this camera as a photo camera. I´m pretty shure that the photo market is a lot bigger than the pro-video market.

And seen from this point of view the camera is already a hit. So they´re not really upset that a relatively small amount of people switch to nikon optics. Let´s face it, people who are willing to take such a lot of workarounds are video freaks, and independent filmers.

No pro would take the 5dmk2 for a feature film by now. You just can´t risk that clients or actors see you fiddling around with strange rites and gadgets to get you´re fstop and shutter fixed, and that after every take. A documentary where you need to have a small unobvious camera would be an exeption. And very low budget image films where you can convince people that they get something for the money they wouldn´t get otherwise.

So I think canon´s video department is very interested in this market study that becomes visible by the fact which people buy the camera for what purpose.

And shurely they´ll build some monster mixed out of the 5dmk2 and their biggest prosumer camera.

25 frames wouldn´t endanger their video department, but full manual control would.
So what we get will in my eyes be a 25p upgrade if we are lucky, but that´s it.

Holger
Holger Neuhaeuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 05:57 AM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 124
Quote:
And then in order to use it to 25fps I make a conversion with COLOR and comes very well.
How do you convert 30 fps to 25 fps? I am in the same PAL boat and am very interested of other people's experience. Thanks.
Daniel Ridicki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 11:43 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser View Post
...So they´re not really upset that a relatively small amount of people switch to nikon optics. Let´s face it, people who are willing to take such a lot of workarounds are video freaks, and independent filmers.
I disagree. I spoke with one Canon rep at CES and complained that the lack of manual control pushed me toward Nikon lenses. There was a small audience listening. The guy's eyes nervously shifted back and forth, he found a Canon guy standing alone, and he directed me to talk with that guy. It was clear that this rep didn't want any potential customers to hear the Nikon lens story.

And then there's the Canon review site that doesn't allow talk of other lenses being used.

It's pretty clear that this is a sore spot for Canon. (It's certainly a sore spot for 5D MkII owners.) The only way they can silence the talk of Nikon lenses on this cam is to offer the firmware update. Without the update, they are creating actively anti-loyal customers.
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 12:02 PM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elk Grove CA
Posts: 6,838
I have to agree to some extent with Jon. My case is an example. I bought body only, because I have a suit case full of Nikon glass. If if Canon rigged it that just Canon lenses would work with a full manual, I would have bought the package, and would be shopping for other Canon lenses. They are losing that market...
__________________
Chris J. Barcellos
Chris Barcellos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 12:21 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Woburn, MA
Posts: 205
If I were you, I would wait. I don't think anyone knows if they will add 25p support; they may, but I don't think it's worth the risk right now if that's the primary reason for buying the camera.

Last edited by Michael Murie; February 23rd, 2009 at 02:25 PM.
Michael Murie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 01:21 PM   #11
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 8,308
Playing the waiting game with higher end Canon cameras can mean years. If you need it now, buy it now.
__________________
Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC?
Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com
Dylan Couper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 01:23 PM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Santo Domingo Dominican Republic
Posts: 27
Al least they could give us something that simple as a setting memory - to make settings repeatable in various shots after having tricked the camera into the settings you were looking for.
Joe Wentrup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 02:15 PM   #13
New Boot
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rome (Italy)
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Ridicki View Post
How do you convert 30 fps to 25 fps? I am in the same PAL boat and am very interested of other people's experience. Thanks.
It must transform all the single ones clip before inziare to work on FCP2. They are imported on COLOR and every single one clip goes modified to 25 fps in the setting. From the way to rendering. At the end the clip will be found modified in the cartellina of rendering. I hope to me to be expressed well. Hello
Max Worm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 02:26 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 124
Max...

... grazie mille!
Daniel Ridicki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 03:37 PM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 92
I just ordered a 5dMkII with the hope that 25p will be added some day, either by Canon or via a firmware hack. That said, I'm looking at using the camera for an internet production, so 30p will be acceptable if there is never a 24p/25p solution. I wouldn't order the camera if I absolutely NEEDED 25p, because in my experience companies like Canon tend to look at their product lifecycle and realize that 24p/25p could be a "must have" feature in their NEXT model (and thus give users a reason to upgrade). They're certainly not having any problems moving the 5dMkII now. I'd love to be proved wrong, though!

There's been a lot of wishful thinking on the firmware hacking front, but so far I've not seen anyone with any real experience say they're actively working on it.

While I wait for my backordered camera to ship, I'm also curious to see if Nikon will announce a D800 at PMA next week with HD video...
Ryan Koo is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Full Frame for HD

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:08 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network