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Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


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Old April 3rd, 2009, 11:23 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
Alex, it is a partial solution, and the one I am using. However, Canon owners may already have a large kit of lenses. And image stabilization can be important with this camera too. So you can understand the basic desire to have more control over exposure no matter what direction you go.
Definitely. I would love to see a firmware update for manual control. Hope that will come soon.

Whether this will make Canon move to make the changes, only time will tell.
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Old April 3rd, 2009, 11:43 AM   #32
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Alex, it is a partial solution, and the one I am using. However, Canon owners may already have a large kit of lenses. And image stabilization can be important with this camera too. So you can understand the basic desire to have more control over exposure no matter what direction you go.
I'm in the same boat. I'm using Nikon lenses for video control, but would prefer to buy Canon lenses. The lack of aperture control is a killer though.

Just last night I was taking a photo of one of my cats (with mostly black fur - a difficult subject) in low light with a Nikon 85mm f/1.8 lens. I used Live View with exposure simulation, manual focus (using 10x mag) and manual control. It was also handheld with no IS - at 1/30. I got a good one good shot, but it was a pain in the butt. With a Canon, I could turn on IS, use autofocus, and simply use shutter priority. Snap, snap, snap.

That said, I will NEVER shoot video without setting the aperture myself. Having to pull the lens, remove mylar, replace the lens, set the aperture, remove the lens, insert the mylar, and attach the lens is a bit much. And after that I still have to mess with the camera to lock the shutter and ISO that I want.

With more money, I'd have a case of Nikons for video and a case of Canons for photos.

I don't have that kind of money.
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Old April 3rd, 2009, 11:48 AM   #33
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Nice thing about Nikons, is you can still get them pretty cheap on EBay. Some pretty good buys on many of the lenses for any where from $ 75 to $ 200, if you are patient.
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Old April 3rd, 2009, 11:52 AM   #34
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...The analogy to GM, a mismanaged American automotive corporation, simply doesn't hold water, especially compared to a Japanese optical manufacturer (there really is no comparison). What many people reading this site don't realize is that they're *not* the target market for inexpensive, mass-market cameras like the Rebel.
People and experts said the same thing that you said about Canon, about GM and not that long ago, as I recall. My comments weren't entirely directed at the Rebel, but rather the general attitude that I perceive in Canon's marketing vs. it's historically impressive engineering. Warren Buffett said it best on TV recently:

"First come the innovators, who see opportunities that others don’t. Then come the imitators, who copy what the innovators have done. And then come the idiots, whose avarice undoes the very innovations they are trying to use to get rich."

Canon started out as a Leica imitator. As they gained expertise and market share, they became an innovator. And I agree with you, their mass market products like the Rebel and the HV series of consumer camcorders brought this innovative thinking to a wide audience. Further, the 5D2 is a diamond with a few, small imperfections. But what I also see happening over the last year is that the Buffett-termed "idiots" are gradually taking charge at Canon. How else could you explain not marketing a version of the 5D2 with 25p for Europe and other PAL countries?

And selling any camera or camcorder for more than $100 US that has a frame rate of 20 fps is no big deal to people who might be buying the device. But it opens up Canon to ridicule by the very people it has catered to for decades. And this elite market influences public opinion. When GM was originally faced with an invasion of small cars, it's response was the Corvair, a clunky, poorly-made VW Bug clone, that was attacked by a so-called expert of his time, Ralph Nader.

Now all that could be termed "honest mistakes" by Canon. But then you have the corporate response to public inquiries to contend with and explain. They read like, "Go fly a kite. We know best, not you. You're complaints and ideas for improvements are not welcomed. Why don't you just wait until we come out with a new model, that fixes everything." Maybe that's not what Canon means, but that's how people are interpreting that. And the people that they are influencing with this attitude will influence the entire market.
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Old April 3rd, 2009, 12:23 PM   #35
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Jay, you are interpolating Canon's standing in the digital imaging field from a tiny slice of Canon's recent history of products and innovations. Give it some time and see which way it will go.

Technically speaking, the Sigma DP1 was the first consumer digital still camera that could capture shallow DOF video due to its APS-C sensor, but the thing only recorded to MPEG at 320x240 30fps.. Last Summer on Vimeo Was there an big outcry at Sigma for not integrating a large movie mode? Nope, so I guess only if you start to deliver features that inch the camera closer to professional usability, do you then make yourself open for ridicule.

Cameras are relatively trivial things compared to other durable goods. It only takes the release of one good model to put the manufacture on the map. Canon has had way more excellent products than duds over the years. Given that you are talking specifically about this brand new category of still/video hybrid products. You can't paint the gloom and doom picture for an established brand like Canon because of a few small bumps along the way.
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Old April 3rd, 2009, 12:37 PM   #36
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...Nope, so I guess only if you start to deliver features that inch the camera closer to professional usability, do you then make yourself open for ridicule.
Yang, actually, you've made a very interesting point, which you may have said in jest, but I think it is true. I don't know how carefully you follow the computer side of the electronics industry, but I'm assuming that the computer that you are using either has an nVidia or ATI (AMD) video card. And that same computer probably has either an Intel or an AMD CPU installed. In the case of both GPUs and CPUs, each company makes most of it's money from low end and mid range products. But the real battleground over public opinion is on the high end. It's what bloggers blog about and experts opine about. If your high end product is not so "high-end", your whole product line suffers. On the computer side of things, it's a constant battle to produce the ultimate flagship product, even if you only sell a few of them, relatively speaking.

To put this in perspective, the 5D2 is the flagship of the prosumer DSLR line and the new Rebel is the flagship of the entire consumer digital camera line for Canon.

So what you said, is probably true. sink your flagship and the whole fleet is affected.
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Old April 3rd, 2009, 12:52 PM   #37
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To put this in perspective, the 5D2 is the flagship of the prosumer DSLR line and the new Rebel is the flagship of the entire consumer digital camera line for Canon.

So what you said, is probably true. sink your flagship and the whole fleet is affected.
Would it sink though?

Yes 1080P @ 20fps is weird, but the D90 only records 720P.. and the Rebel records 720P @ 30fps, which is very usable. Only a small subset of the people (low budget indie filmmakers) relative to Rebel's target demographic will care about 24P. So from that perspective, Canon has delivered a product that is well suited for their target demographic.

So no, I don't think it will sink - that's my whole point. Unless someone comes out with a competing product that is equality appealing and addresses our needs, we'll just have to live by what these camera companies puts out and they will not fail/sink because we're not 100% satisfied with what they offer - we simply have no other choice.. They will only sink if they fail at putting out products that do not to excel at their core purpose. HD video on the 5D2 is not its core purpose. In fact, I'm willing to bet you that Canon has lost A LOT more revenue and gain much more negative reputation from the 1D3's focus issues, than anything the regarding the 5D2 or the Rebel.

The GH1 will have manual control and 24P which is good, but its lens selection is poor at best so we don't have a superior alternative yet!
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Old April 4th, 2009, 06:56 AM   #38
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Just last night I was taking a photo of one of my cats (with mostly black fur - a difficult subject) in low light with a Nikon 85mm f/1.8 lens. I used Live View with exposure simulation, manual focus (using 10x mag) and manual control. It was also handheld with no IS - at 1/30. I got a good one good shot, but it was a pain in the butt. With a Canon, I could turn on IS, use autofocus, and simply use shutter priority. Snap, snap, snap.
Why not use a Canon lens for photos? I can understand why your choice of Nikon lenses for manual aperture control when shooting video but insisting on using a Nikon lens for stills & then complaining about the limitations is a bit perverse.

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Old April 4th, 2009, 07:27 AM   #39
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I can see how you interpreted Jon's post, but I think he meant something else, namely that he'd prefer to to invest in a full set of quality Canon lenses for video and stills. Because Canon has crippled aperture control in video mode, he must buy Nikkors for video AND Canon for stills.

I've done the same thing myself. I have half a dozen Nikkors which I use exclusively for video, and a few Canon lenses I use exclusively for stills. If Canon gave us manual control over video, I'd sell my Nikkors tomorrow and buy a couple of L series lenses.

As it is, if Nikon comes out with a replacement for the D300 or D700 with good video functionality and a decent codec, I'll sell my 5D and be all set to go. In fact, this seems to be a more likely outcome that Canon coming up with the firmware fix, but I hope I'm wrong.
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Old April 4th, 2009, 11:23 AM   #40
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Nigel,

Josh has it exactly right. Given the money, I'd buy both sets of lenses. Given that my budget doesn't allow that, I'm choosing Nikons, since video is my priority.
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Old April 5th, 2009, 03:23 AM   #41
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If you want to take stills you really should pony up for at least one Canon EOS lens. My 5DII came in a kit with the 24-105 f4L IS USM which is a stellar lens for snaps.

For creative video my collection of half a dozen manual Nikon lenses cost less on eBay than just one new or even a decent used Canon lens which I suspect is a major reason that many people are investing in Nikon rather than Canon lenses for video. The old manual Nikon lenses are just so much cheaper to buy.

Cheers

Nigel

Last edited by Nigel Barker; April 5th, 2009 at 05:47 AM.
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Old April 5th, 2009, 02:40 PM   #42
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If you want to take stills you really should pony up for at least one Canon EOS lens.
I've got the 70-300mm F/4-5.6 IS, but I'm finding that I want to use the Nikon primes over the zoom in a lot of cases, even if I have to set up the shot old school.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 07:33 PM   #43
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To way in on the lens discussion, i purchased the 24-70 canon L lens which i love, but will most likely buy zeiss nikon-mount lenses for the remainder of the life of the camera. but i do love the 24-70 i shot for 2 or 3 hours last night and got some amazing photos in very low natural light.
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I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...
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Old April 12th, 2009, 12:05 AM   #44
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That is the one canon lens I might buy besides the 50mm 1.8 I got just to have something to play with. Everything else will be Nikon/Zeiss for the day I probably switch to a Nikon body that has manual control with video. I don't see that happening with Canon.
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Old April 12th, 2009, 10:16 AM   #45
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The issue I most want to see addressed in a firmware upgrade are these horrible line-skipping and demosaicing artifacts I am getting. :(

Anytime I shoot golden water at sunset, I get horrendous blue/magenta artifacts.
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