Should I wait or should I go...? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Full Frame for HD

Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 5th, 2009, 05:27 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Norwegian lost in California
Posts: 881
Should I wait or should I go...?

I'm about to get a 5D to use primarily for video (I would also use it for some photo gigs since my old Canon SLR is going to an ex-gf) -- but before I lash out the money, I have two questions:

1) Since I'm planning to buy body only and then get a Sigma 17-70mm 2.8 -- would you recommend getting a Nikon mount (w. converter), or get one with Canon mount?

2) Relating to the 'Firmware Update' thread, do you suggest that I wait until after NAB, in the hopes that Canon would actually release something more diggity-dank... or perhaps wait even longer (since I'm in no particular hurry) until Nikon whacks us with their 5D killer..?

As always, any help/suggestion appreciated.

-- peer
__________________
www.NoPEER.com
Peer Landa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 09:06 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 2,230
If your waiting for a new DSLR, then you might be waiting a while. Canon & Nikon seem to release new bodies like clockwork on a 1 1/2 to 3 year cycle.

If you are waiting for a new Canon video camera with a large CMOS chip, who knows about a NAB announcement. If they do announce something there is the unknown about product availability.

Waiting is always better in the tech space, but if you need to shoot waiting does not get the project finished.

Glad to see Panasonic & JVC adapting their NAB product releases by announcing the product well before NAB so they can have a shipping product at NAB.
Tim Polster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 10:27 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 38
Images: 1
Waiting a month or maybe two would be good

I would say wait (unless of course there is a paying gig that justifies moving forward or you can rent one on a job).

Why wait? Canon could release a firmware to the Mark II - I use to think this was coming, but now have switched over to the "this is it until the next version" camp. But NAB will bring people together and questions will get asked and talk will happen (even though the Mark II is a still camera, it will generate buzz and people will ask the same question about functionality). So maybe more insight or confirmation in a couple of weeks.

Nikon rumors are flying about a D400 and I think in the next few months something will come out. Nikon is the only company that does not have to protect it's video sales, so I expect them to make a decent run at the Mark II. This alone might be worth waiting for.

And the wild card could be the Panasonic GH1. We should get a better look at it this month because of NAB and it gets released in June, so that is not to far off.

I do filmmaking and photography and international work, so a all in one system is ideal for me. But I want one that I can invest in lenses that will work for both, without twisting or adapters.

Not sure if that will happen anytime soon, but excited about the future and where it is going. I have a Canon 5d and Canon XH-A1, and think the image from the Mark II is great and would be happy with that, just want some more control without jumping through a lot of hoops.
John Gyovai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 12:31 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Woburn, MA
Posts: 205
I'd wait; unless you have an urgent need. There might be something out of NAB; though I don't think it will be a firmware update for the 5D Mark II. Certainly, a couple of weeks before a big tech show is not a wise time to jump in as you don't know what might be around the corner.

Now is an interesting time with DSLR's and video....but I can't help thinking a year from now there could be major changes with more cameras with better options that the 5D Mark Ii.

And if you're thinking of getting a camera primarily for video, you might want to wait and see how the GH1 turns out
Michael Murie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 01:42 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elk Grove CA
Posts: 6,838
Heres my take on it. If you have a year and a half and the funds to wait around for $10,000 to $15,000 plus full frame 35mm camera, wait. You'll probably see Canon, as well as other, and of course, Scarlet, it that time frame. If you want to be doing something now for $ 2,700 and get some great images, and get a lot of in hand training in shooting 35mm full frame, so your ready for the next generation, then jump on the 5D. It is as good an education as you can get for the money.
__________________
Chris J. Barcellos
Chris Barcellos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 02:31 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
I'd buy. Hey, I already did!

Frankly, setting the camera up is proving to be easy and fast. For low light stuff, just use a Nikon lens, set the aperture, dial the exposure and forget it. From what Mark Hahn and I have found, the shutter will be a consistent 1/33. Sure, that's slow, but it works fine when there's little motion.

If you want a consistent aperture, and don't want to buy two sets of lenses, you can get Canon lenses and cut out some mylar. Whenever you complete a photo shoot, set the aperture to your preference (say, one stop from wide open), and put the lens in the case. When you shoot video, put the mylar in before you mount the lens, and you're good to go. Bring ND filters for outdoor shoots.

Frankly, looking at the limited choices of shutter and aperture in movie mode, I think it's really unlikely that we'll get full manual mode. (They'd have to implement a bunch more shutter speeds than they have.) A more reasonable request would be a feature that keeps exposure lock after we stop recording. We'd have to set up the camera every time we turn it off or leave Live View, but we can live with that.

The other thing Canon needs to do is to allow us to set the aperture of their EF lenses in movie mode. Why they want us to consider buying Nikon lenses is beyond me.
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 03:18 PM   #7
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,093
Should you wait or should you buy now? There will always be the next better thing on the horizon. Depends whether the camera will do the job you want it to do for a price you're willing to pay. If yes, buy. If no, wait.

I pulled the trigger today on a 5D Mark II...battery is on the charger now. I wanted it mainly for full frame still shooting, but am also eager to try the video mode. It'll do some video things my XL H1 cameras won't (like that wicked shallow DOF a full frame sensor gives, and superb low light), and they do things the 5DmII can't, like a super slow crawl zoom through a 20X range. So it won't replace my HD video cameras, it'll be another tool in the arsenal.
__________________
Pete Bauer
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein
Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!
Pete Bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 04:55 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Norwegian lost in California
Posts: 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Bauer View Post
Should you wait or should you buy now? There will always be the next better thing on the horizon. Depends whether the camera will do the job you want it to do for a price you're willing to pay. If yes, buy. If no, wait.
Well, that's fairly axiomatic. But there will also be thresholds along the way -- certain times when it would be better to wait a bit (the same thing as trying to avoid buying an Apple item shortly before MacWorld, etc.). So my question was; is it likely that we'll soon see something that is worth waiting for?

The other question I had, that no one has yet commented; if I buy now, a body only, would it then make sense to get a Nikon mount (Sigma 17-70mm 2.8) or one with a Canon mount?

As I said before, it will primarily be used for video, but I would also need it for some photo gigs (since I'd then part with my old SLR).

-- peer
__________________
www.NoPEER.com
Peer Landa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 05:20 PM   #9
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,093
Yes, it is axiomatic, which is why every time the wait-or-buy-now question comes up, it gets answered the way it has this time. Similarly, "those who know aren't talking, and those who talk don't know" is the watchword.

I can't answer your Nikon lens question from experience, but the consistent theme in this forum has been that if you don't mind the camera controlling your video aperture, shutter, and gain then Canon L glass is great for both still and video, whereas if you want to force a degree of manual control, then get some relatively inexpensive manual Nikon lenses for the video work.

I just bought my 5DmII today so I'm excited about it, but I still say there's nothing like a video camera for doing video work. Digital convergence has begun but it is a long way from complete. If you're uncertain and not in a hurry, then it sounds to me like you could wait to buy. That's the best I can do; the decision is up to you.
__________________
Pete Bauer
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein
Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!
Pete Bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 05:35 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,071
I think in reading about all of your 5D MKII experiences here and over at the 5D Wiki, you have convinced me to wait on purchasing. I already own four SLRS, two digital and two film and I have three video cameras. I was considering the 5D MKII for a shoot I am doing in France where I will need to shoot video as well as stills and I was thinking that the 5D MKII could be a good solution. I can live with dual system sound, not a big deal for me, but having to finagle the exposure for every shot seems to a tedious workaround for the real world. When you are just goofing around or shooting artsy video on your own dime and time, it is workable but with a subject that I need to follow all over the country for this doc and time constraints, it seems that the 5D MKII work methodology will cause me to miss too many shots.

I am convinced that Canon will never offer a firmware update offering full manual control for the 5D MKII, it has been too long, they would have already if they were ever going to. I think Canon's minds are on a video camera with some of the 5D MKII goodness or the 1D update that may be a sell up from the 5D MKII.

The Panasonic GH-1 offers some promise but it will be out too late for my trip and I am wont to have to buy another camera body and another set of lenses and I doubt that many fast, economical 4:3 system lenses will be forthcoming.

I think that there will be some amazing solutions for low cost, shallow depth of field, high ISO, small size HD video within the next 6 months whether from a DSLR, the RED Scarlet or something new from Nikon. There are always the wild cards too like Olympus, Samsung, etc. The Japanese already know what the market wants, it is just a matter of who will provide it at a low cost the soonest. The 5D MKII is tantalizingly close, it has the sensor size, the low ISO, the changeable lens, but quality audio and manual control are missing as well as the limitations of 12 minute or less takes, the aliasing, CMOS/rolling shutter.

I may end up buying a 5D MKII this year if nothing else surfaces but for the France trip and project, I think I will end up taking one of my DSLRs and will buy a Canon HFS100 or something like that. Sure, lousy low light and infinite dept of field but it is small, light, cheap so it meets most of the criteria. I don't want to deal with shooting "undercover" with my HPX170 and dealing with P2 cards, drives and my laptop while high tailing it all over France for weeks.

Good luck to those of you who have taken the plunge, the 5D MKII definitely impresses and I will probably still end up buying one but not yet.

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 06:04 PM   #11
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peer Landa View Post
I'm about to get a 5D to use primarily for video...
In my opinion it's a mistake to buy this camera primarily for video. Some folks have bought it for that and have done great work with it, but I would not. I bought it to use primarily as a full-frame stills camera. That it has an HD video mode is a nice add-on, it's definitely a handy feature, but I would not buy it primarily for video. As Pete says above, it's just another tool in the arsenal, but in my opinion it's not a substitute for a real video camera.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 07:18 PM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Brockett View Post
...but having to finagle the exposure for every shot seems to a tedious workaround for the real world...
It's not as bad as it seems, for indoor work anyway, assuming that you control the aperture. You just hit the AE Lock button and dial the exposure, which will control only the ISO. The shutter is pretty much fixed.

@Peer...

Regarding the Canon or Nikon lens mount, this depends on what you will do with it. Do you expect to take photos of moving subjects? Get the Canon mount and cut some mylar for use with video. Are your photos of still objects, where you can set things up manually, then consider the Nikon.

Does the Sigma include an aperture ring with a Canon mount? If so, that would be great.

WARNING: I just looked at the 17-70mm Sigma zooms. They're for crop sensor cameras. You'll want a full sensor lens. Avoid Sigma's "DC" line.

* Vignetting will occur if the lens is used with digital cameras with image sensors larger than APS-C size or 35mm SLR cameras.
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 07:26 PM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
In my opinion it's a mistake to buy this camera primarily for video. Some folks have bought it for that and have done great work with it, but I would not. I bought it to use primarily as a full-frame stills camera. That it has an HD video mode is a nice add-on, it's definitely a handy feature, but I would not buy it primarily for video. As Pete says above, it's just another tool in the arsenal, but in my opinion it's not a substitute for a real video camera.
I think this depends on what kind of video you do. For me, I use it primarily for video, but we do scripted stuff with short takes. It shines here, and is also great for video "impressions."

Don't get this camera for long takes, or for situations where a bad setting or poor focus can lose that once in a lifetime moment.

You can capture a great impression of your kid's soccer game, but if you want to tell a linear, factual account that documents every goal, penalty/corner kick and defensive win, this isn't your camera. The 5D MkII, like any photo camera, works best when you can throw out the shots that didn't work.
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 08:19 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Norwegian lost in California
Posts: 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
WARNING: I just looked at the 17-70mm Sigma zooms. They're for crop sensor cameras. You'll want a full sensor lens. Avoid Sigma's "DC" line.
Jon, you're herby my new hero. Thank you so much!

So is there any wide 2.8 zoom lens (approx. 15mm and up) that you would recommend?

Quote:
Get the Canon mount and cut some mylar for use with video. Are your photos of still objects, where you can set things up manually, then consider the Nikon.
I'm sorry to ask yet another inane question, but what does "cut some mylar for use with video" mean?

Quote:
The 5D MkII, like any photo camera, works best when you can throw out the shots that didn't work.
That's pretty much how I work.

-- peer
__________________
www.NoPEER.com
Peer Landa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2009, 08:51 PM   #15
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peer Landa View Post
So is there any wide 2.8 zoom lens (approx. 15mm and up) that you would recommend?
At the "budget" end there's
Nikon 18-35mm f/3.5-4.5 AF-D, and
Canon 17-40mm f/4 L

If you've got to have f/2.8 ($$$) there's
Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8 AF-S, and
Canon 16-35mm f/2.8 L II

The nice thing about shooting so wide is that you'll be able to do it handheld or with a simple shoulder stabilizer.

Quote:
I'm sorry to ask yet another inane question, but what does "cut some mylar for use with video" mean?
The advantage of a Nikon lens on an adapter is that you can adjust the aperture with a mechanical ring. Canon lens aperture is controlled by the camera only.

With a Canon lens, you can mount the camera, put it in manual or aperture priority mode and adjust the camera. If you hold the DOF Preview button and remove the lens, the aperture that you set will remain. Now slip a mylar insulator between the camera and the lens, and the camera will no longer change the aperture on its own. This really simplifies control of the camera exposure settings.

Mylar is a thin, clear plastic. You can get it from a hobby/craft shop. Cut it into a circular shape with an Xacto knife. Cut a rectangular hole in the center for the image to shine through.

If you always shoot wide open (some prefer one stop down - it's generally sharper and has less falloff in the corners), then you can always set your lens to this setting after snapping photos with it. If you do that, you're ready to mount it with mylar and shoot video at any time.

With a Nikon lens, you need an adapter. If you buy an adapter for every lens, you're ready to mount it to the camera immediately. If you swap one adapter, you have a bit more handling to deal with.
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Full Frame for HD

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:29 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network