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Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


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Old April 23rd, 2009, 09:56 AM   #1
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FCP Worflow

OK, so I've been doing some research on workflow and here is the understanding that I have come to:

Transcode footage to ProRes through compressor at 1080p 30fps.

Is this correct? It makes sense to me, but I have been reading about color issues that need to be corrected by Neo Scene?

Is there a tremendous gain in quality by transcoding to ProRes HQ?

Why is everyone determined to convert their clips to 24p? Without slowing down the footage won't you get missing frames if you just convert to 24p since their is no pulldown information?

If anyone has a solid workflow solution I would be extremely grateful because I know for a fact that editing H264 footage in FCP is a PITA!
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 10:07 AM   #2
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one word.... Cineform
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 11:00 AM   #3
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Thanks Ray. I'll look into it and do some more research.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 02:25 AM   #4
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Just curious, what are the benefits of Cineform over ProRes HQ? Also, is it best to convert the footage to 24p before starting the edit process or should you just finish editing, make a final render as ProRes and then convert that to 24p?
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Old April 24th, 2009, 10:09 AM   #5
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Here's a tutorial on the worflow of transcoding to Proress. I like folllowing this guy's blog. He's got some good stuff. Check it out.

tutorial on workflow - Final Cut Prose Episode 2 - Editing Canon EOS 5D Mark II Footage on Vimeo
blog - pro ? active ? ly

And also, I'd love to hear an answer to Michael's question as well. I've been wondering about that for a while.
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Old April 26th, 2009, 03:01 AM   #6
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24p

One reason to use 24p is that the rest of the work is in 24p already. This is true with me. I'd love to use this camera for shots, but I am scared of the headaches associated with 30p->24p conversion.

Beyond this, the aperture issue is another big headache.
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Old April 26th, 2009, 03:02 AM   #7
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one more thing

The promise of the Nanoflash when used with this camera is also very enticing.
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Old April 26th, 2009, 05:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Walter View Post
Just curious, what are the benefits of Cineform over ProRes HQ?
Minimal as far as I understand if all you do is edit on Macs but apparently useful if you want to exchange files to/from Windows PCs. ProRes has only been available since Final Cut Studio 2 was released a couple of years ago so there are seem to be plenty of enthusiasts for Cineform who have been using it on Macs for years who will continue to recommend it despite the fact that FCP now ships with its own high quality intermediate CODEC.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 10:48 PM   #9
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The tutorial on Vimeo is pretty good. However there is an easier way and that is to create a droplet out of compressor. So when you want to convert your media you simply drag and drop the files on to it.

For me I always edit in the frame rate that I am going to be airing.

Sadly this usually means an over-night conversion of footage to whatever frame rate you want. (In my case 25fps) as it can be anything up to 20:1 even on a fast machine like an 8 Core MacPro if you want a good quality conversion.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 11:21 PM   #10
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Staircase, Stairstep, Jaggies on Raw footage - Problem Solved

I thought I'd tack this on in this thread. I am now getting into serious analysis now that I own the camera.

My shock was seeing staircasing on footage, and I was just believing that "well people said it's not perfect" with the aliasing and moire, etc.

However, I made this discovery...

Here's an example of the horrid stairstepping I was getting:
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/...aggies_Yes.jpg

And here's an example of the raw file:
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/...Jaggies_No.jpg

I finally figured out my error. In FCP, the raw 5DMkII footage has Upper field dominance. And I was assuming it had None (progressive). I had first thought it had to do with transcoding it or not transcoding it, since my transcoded footage worked fine in a progressive timeline.

Anyway, I am planning on transcoding everything as a rule, but I know sometimes I may want to just shortcut and edit the raw footage. And now I know it's critical to get the field dominance right if I'm editing the raw footage in FCP.

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Old May 6th, 2009, 12:02 AM   #11
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We are mostly creating stuff for the web so stick with the 30fps. As it's mainly real estate we film we also don't generally have a lot of movement so can change the framerate without transcoding (we just get a 'cool' slo-mo look).

There is a new short course on Tutorials - Online Training - lynda.com specifically on using FCP with the Canon 5D Mk II Photography Video Workflow: Final Cut Pro + Canon 5D Mark II - Online Training Library - lynda.com It's a pretty basic introduction to FCP but covers the whole workflow. I have created a FCP Easy Setup for the Canon 5D Mk II as shown in that course. Everything is setup correctly to edit the footage natively e.g. 1920x1080, 30fps, upper field dominance, 44.1KHz audio etc A zip file of the Easy Setup is attached. Just drop the unzipped file into '/Library/Application Support/Final Cut Pro System Support/Custom Settings', restart FCP & then the setup will be available to you.

There are many other excellent FCP training videos available on Lynda.com & you get unlimited access for a month for $25. However if you just wanted to take "Photography Video Workflow: Final Cut Pro + Canon 5D Mark II" with instructor Frank Rohmer then you can sign up for a free 24 hour trial Free Trial Signup
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File Type: zip Canon 5D Mk II.zip (1.8 KB, 76 views)
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Old May 6th, 2009, 02:19 AM   #12
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What I would love to find is a quick and easy way to batch add time-of-day timecode to the movies so that they don't all start at 00:00:00:00. Makes for a very colourful timeline if you have dupe detection on. ;-)

Anyone know of anything that can do this? Even if the tool was used to add the TC as it copies the clips from the CF Cards to the HD that would help.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 09:13 AM   #13
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For my two-penneth, I transcode to XDCAM HD which leaves me with files about the same size as the originals and edit in 30p. Then I save out at 30p and 24p when I've finished. The files as sharp and clear and take colour messing (Color or Looks) without problems on my late 2007 MBP.

I did some experiments with some footage early on and thought that the XDCAM stuff looked almost exactly the same as the ProRes (Not HQ) transcoded files which were about 5 times the size of the originals, so I go for the XDCAM and smaller file sizes.

I know a chap who produces great looking stuff on Vimeo from his EX1/Letus and he edits in DCP in XDCAM HD, so if it's good enough for him, then I'm fine with that.

Anybody feel free to comment with problems in my workflow that I may not be aware of, all comments are helpful as you guys tend to know your stuff!

Avey
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Old May 6th, 2009, 09:27 AM   #14
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Nigel, what's the point changing your timeline to those settings? I thought FCP, automatically adjusted all footage to its exact settings, because it's an "open timeline". I could be wrong, but that's what I've always been taught. I'm definitely gonna test out that easy set-up, though for sure.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 10:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Joseph View Post
Nigel, what's the point changing your timeline to those settings? I thought FCP, automatically adjusted all footage to its exact settings
I thought I'd add to this. I'd say, for quick editing, you don't have to change any settings at all and yes FCP automatically prompts you to let it automatically change it to the proper sequence settings to match the native 5DMkII files.

So I don't have a need for that setting to be in my setups really - the idea is to be quick anyway.

But 2 last points.

A) If I was editing quickly with H.264 sequence settings, I'd be certain to switch the compressor when I'm done editing and ready to export. I surely don't want to export a master back out to H.264, unless that's exactly the format I intend on distributing. I prefer ProRes or DVCPRO HD to export a master - and it's also a LOT faster to export.

B) Again, as has been said many times, editing in H.264 is a chore in FCP. Scrubbing and playback are pretty frustrating even on my 8-core Mac Pro. So it's now a rule to transcode before serious edit-intensive project work.

-steev
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