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Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
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Old May 4th, 2009, 05:56 PM   #1
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Audio Options

With the Beachtek coming out (theoretically) on May 26, are there any education opinions about the "best" audio solution: a duel set up with a Zoom (for example) or the Beachtek straight into the 5D?

This question assumes you already have decent mics and enough time to wait until June.

Thanks!
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Old May 4th, 2009, 08:03 PM   #2
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I think the new beacktek with a good recorder like the Zoom H4n or the Sony PCM-D50 will be the way to go. For even better sound look at a seperate mixer like the Sound Device mixpre to use either for separate sound or to feed into the beachtek. You can of course get even better mixers and recorders, just depends on your budget.

Dan
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Old May 5th, 2009, 07:25 AM   #3
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What are you guys using to capture live ambient audio? If I want to encode surround sound, I wonder if 4 or 5 strategically placed portable audio recorders can capture the ambience of the room adequately for the surround channels?
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Old May 5th, 2009, 08:20 AM   #4
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For the ultimate result, rent one of these:
HOLOPHONE | Toronto, Canada

Sure, you can place mics all around, but you can end up with phase problems. If you co-locate directional mics, those problems go away. Another solution would be an omni mic, plus a couple of figure-8 mics for a four-way mid-side configuration. The advantage of this is that you can always mix down to stereo or even mono with no phasing issues at all.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 03:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
For the ultimate result, rent one of these:
HOLOPHONE | Toronto, Canada

Sure, you can place mics all around, but you can end up with phase problems. If you co-locate directional mics, those problems go away. Another solution would be an omni mic, plus a couple of figure-8 mics for a four-way mid-side configuration. The advantage of this is that you can always mix down to stereo or even mono with no phasing issues at all.
flurbleblopihshnurblepnpisnizle...

I can't believe how what seems like a simple question goes so far over my head on these forums that it sounds like a different language.

How good is the "feel" of the sound from one of the stereo mic flash recorders? I've heard demos that sound nice but is it really as easy as setting up the recorder on a tripod in front of a band?
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Old May 5th, 2009, 04:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault View Post
How good is the "feel" of the sound from one of the stereo mic flash recorders? I've heard demos that sound nice but is it really as easy as setting up the recorder on a tripod in front of a band?
This is a BIG question. There are large books on how to achieve good live recordings.

So it *can* be as easy as a flash recorder in front of a band, and it can be as complicated as close mic'ing every drum, amp, instruments and vocalist. It all depends on budget and goals.

But Yang's question was about recording surround ambiance. For that you need at least three mics and maybe more.

To dig deeper on the surround thing, I'd target four channels (L, R, Ls, Rs.) Leave the LFE (subwoofer) for sound effects and deep bass. Leave the center channel for dialog. You could do it with four spaced mics, four directional mics in a cluster, or the mid-side thing. If done right, it would put the viewer right in the middle of the space.

The cool thing about mid-side is that you can tune the spatial spread to taste. This link shows how to do it for stereo (left, right). Add another figure-8 mic, and you can control the front-rear mix. Mid-Side Microphone Technique - WikiRecording
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Old May 6th, 2009, 03:18 AM   #7
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This is my favorite:

Ambisonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With willingness to learn, and two figure 8 pattern mics plus an omni, you can do it all on a normal recording console, no other devices needed. One more figure 8 gets you height, as well.

Also: Blumlein Pair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But you can get perfectly wonderful ambience with four near coincident cardioids, front at 90 degree angle, rear at 120 degree angle, to match the recommended 5.1 surround speaker placement.

A zoom H2 has the mics arranged like this - pretty cheap way to experiment.

Better, quieter mics would be a plus, of course.

-Mike
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Old May 6th, 2009, 03:41 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dan Chung View Post
I think the new beacktek with a good recorder like the Zoom H4n or the Sony PCM-D50 will be the way to go. For even better sound look at a seperate mixer like the Sound Device mixpre to use either for separate sound or to feed into the beachtek. You can of course get even better mixers and recorders, just depends on your budget.Dan
Hi Dan.
Would you consider the Zoom H4n or the Sony PCM-D50 as a back up to the camera, or is the camera a backup to the Zoom H4n or the Sony PCM-D50?
I was HOPING the Beachtek going straight into the 5DM2 with uncompressed audio would have been enough for a "pro" sound - assuming you have pro mics and proper placement. But based on you're saying here, it sounds like a duel system is still necessary.

Thanks.
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